In Alabama, at a hearing on a public power utility hearing:
Perhaps they’re really praying for lightning; they may think that’s where their ‘lectricity comes from?
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Whatever Works 
Yep. I’m sure the Godless will get pissed over that. I’m equally sure that the majority of Americans won’t really care about that at all.
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It’s not necessarily about anybody getting pissed–but I would probably feel a little insecure if I was the only one not participating. I’ve been the only non-Christian kid at a school before, and I know how people will treat you if you are not a part of their religion.
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Been there, done that OPENLY, and never really experienced what you claim to have. Of course, if they knew you were one of the Godless your experiences would be necessarily different than my own.
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Maybe Polish Catholics are different about that sort of thing.
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Given the issues the Polish Catholics had over the course of their recent history, that’s quite possible though I can’t speak to it as I’ve only visited Poland a few times and then only as an adult.
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Jonolan
What the fuck is the godless?? Don’t worry, were all covered.
John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
My favourite actually
1 Thessalonians 5:21
but test them all; hold on to what is good,
I do this with the majority of bible thumper, god full individuals. It isn’t that hard to let go.
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I also thought the “godless” had the right to be godless here in America…isn’t that one of the things that is supposed to make this country unique?
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They have the right to exist. They don’t have the right to acceptance; nobody does. Tolerance is just that; it isn’t acceptance, approval, or anything else than many would want.
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I would agree with you, but that depends on what you define as acceptance. I agree that no religious person should be forced to accept another person’s belief. What I will never agree to is a situation in which a religiious minority is excluded from the society in which they live, which is what can easily happen when you have a sanctioned group prayer in a government setting, and some don’t participate in it.
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And I would agree, but that depends on what you define as being excluded from the society in which they live. I agree that they shouldn’t be forbidden from participation do to their faith or lack of it. What I will never agree to is a situation in which people or groups are forced to make them comfortable, which is what can easily happen when you have a sanction against group prayer in public settings.
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If it’s a choice between making people too comfortable and excluding them from participation, I will go with the former. Again, we’re talking about government settings here, so the prayer isn’t necessary. They can always go to their house of worship for that.
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If they’re excluded solely because they’re not comfortable and choose not to be involved, they don’t deserve to participate in the first place…And prayer belongs everywhere, not just locked away inside temples.
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I agree that it doesn’t have to be just locked inside temples, but at a public government event? The point is that even if those people feel comfortable enough to participate in that event, they may still be excluded from being a full part of their community simply for choosing not to pray. And for crying out loud, religious behavior should not be a prerequisite for participating in a local gov’t event.
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Okay, that cinches it: I’m not moving to Alabama.
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Or South Carolina, or North Carolina, or Texas or ….
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Since I’m sure you were considering that move 😉
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This guy challenges anyone present to deny belief in prayer or that “God answers prayers”, but nobody is going to do that. (jonolan is nowhere near Alabama.) What’s going on is the cementing of tribal cohesion.
As for a good practical example of whether God is at the other end of the prayer line and whether he actually moves stuff around down here, a good example occurred this week: the crash of the bullet train in Spain. It turns out that many, perhaps a majority, of the passengers on it were “Catholic pilgrims”. This, from an article:
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The all purpose easy-out, Jim, and the one I heard throughout my Catholic girlhood is “God works in mysterious ways.”
See, easy.. No dilemma. Solved.
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Just so, Moe. It’s the opposite of science where the proponent must show cause and effect in a way that yields consistent results when tested repeatedly. Testing God is, however and conveniently, a sin. But the meme that He answers prayers at all not only persists but continues to be a principal bulwark of Christian teaching, both Protestant and Catholic, and that despite clear information to the contrary in Matthew 5:45 King James Version (KJV).
The context of that passage, straight from Jesus’ lips (it says), is to extol efforts to be “perfect” like God, as in “loving your enemies”, even though the crucifixion itself is held as necessary because perfection in mortals is not possible. This is wisdom on drugs, inconsistent, impractical, contradictory and ever so uplifting! And it’s wisdom that will get you killed deader than a doornail when jihad comes.
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Imagine how much more horrible if a train full of Atheists were killed and injured. Who are their loved ones going to pray to, err complain to ? Oh yea, the railroad .
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That’s just silly Alan. Atheists don’t turn to prayer.
Do you think the CAtholic pilgrims won’t sue the RR? Think again.
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Ms. Holland,
I apologize for not being clear. I thought of the spiritual and emotional instead of the legal. I would take no satisfaction from a tragedy to Atheists. I only sought to illustrate the unfairness of the way the point was made. God is not mocked, but Christians certainly are very cruelly mocked .
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Alan — most people consider me an atheist, a label I don’t claim because atheism also requires blind belief – a certainty that there is no god. I don’t personally believe in god as usually defined, although I can imagine a power greater than ourselves. But I never have understood why that would translate into such a ‘power’ playing any part in our moral behaviors. We develop those rules as societies. I do think too that we are born with an innate sense of what’s morally right and wrong in human interactions. That misfires of course and goes wrong in some people, which is probably why we developed the ‘behavioral’ rules in the first place.
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Allow me to add, Moe, that cooperation and altruistic behavior at the tribal and familial levels have been shown scientifically to be survival traits, so that’s consistent with evolution.
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Ms. Holland,
I disagree that we are born with an innate sense of what is morally right and wrong. I attended many schools, good and bad in my childhood. Mostly in Philadelphia. With out proper supervision children are Lord of the Flies on steroids. Religion is one of society’s tools to instruct each new generation not to prey on the weaker. Granted, secular morality can do the same thing, but being good still must be passed down as a tradition.
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Alan – you’re right of course that kids can be monsters. Being born with an ‘innate sense’ (which I believe we are) doesn’t mean that we don’t still have to be taught the rules by the adult authority figures who raise us. Lord of the Flies of course was about a world WITHOUT that adult supervision.
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