Real Americans

POSTED BY ORHAN

There are now over 130 #Occupying groups nationally. There’s a site to find one nearby or start your own.

I went to Zuccotti Park yesterday afternoon. The energy was different than a demonstration–the people were, well, occupying, not marching. The group was predominantly young, but people of all ages were participating. The area was mobbed with tourists, media (but not MSM), people who work in the area, some jeering, others curious or obviously sympathetic. My sense is that the energy changes from hour to hour.

There were lots of small groups, people working out tactics and strategy; if there’s anything like an organizational focus, the General Assembly is it; the emphasis is on leaderlessness, non-hierarchy, non-violence, consensus-building, giving everyone a voice.

There was a fairly heavy police presence, but the cops appeared laid back; they’re also learning–nothing energizes people like seeing college kids penned and pepper-sprayed.

Right now the people need sleeping bags, blankets, boots, food.

41 responses to “Real Americans

  1. Sounds like a college sociology department faculty meeting. Zero substance there either.

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    • Frustration with the system, anger at the cronyism and disempowerment, disgust with ineffective governance, lack of response from leaders – damn, you’re right, it does sound like a college faculty meeting 🙂

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  2. I like the ‘We are the 99’ aspect of it. The voices of the 99% whose earnings have only dropped over the last 30 years. They’ve got a website too. I think I linked to it in a post below.

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  3. If, Moe, you read the manifesto — the demands — of the Occupy Wall Street gang, it becomes clear early and often that these are gimmees and moochers who’ve never produced anything of value in their lives, and they are clueless beyond belief. But, meanwhile they serve unwittingly the desires of Barack Obama and George Soros, et al.

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    • Well, I have spent my life working hard and producing things of value, and I still share the anger of the 99% protesters. Don’t be so quick to dismiss the discontent in the country as only belonging to a few moochers, it’s much bigger than that.

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    • thedrpete: At present this is a very disorganized movement, and the public face (those ‘occupying’ Wall Street) is young, and lots of them look a bit hippie. But ‘gimmies and moochers’? How do you know that?

      Like eurobrat, I would say “I am the 99”. There are protests being organized in my area and I intend to be there. I’ll add that I am retired, worked 45 years, and produced some pretty fine stuff in my day.

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  4. Moe …thanks for your eye witness analysis.

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  5. If you give even a scintilla of credibility to the “Occupy” crowd, please just read their demands (http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/). If you cannot see justification for my “gimmees and moochers” characterization and also see that they are economics illiterati, I give up.

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    • Occupy Wall Street has no demands. That list is just one person’s opinion that was posted on a public discussion forum–which you might have noticed if you bothered to look.

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  6. Okay, ojmo, point well-taken. What, then. is “Occupy _____________”, and why are they there? Is each person there for a different reason? Is it a group-whine rather than a group-hug? What’s the point?

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  7. Thanks, ojmo. Looks like a bunch of whiners who believe that they have right to others’ lives, others’ liberty, and others’ property (why) gather and march to plunder the producers and what they have produced (what).

    With one demand or another, they all advocate slavery, just as long as others are the slaves while they are the slave-masters, that with the government enforcing by force as necessary the arrangement.

    Appreciate the heads-up and answers to my questions.

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    • Anytime, troll 😉

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    • drpete: you are in thrall to your Galtian Overlords and don’t even know it. Keep defending the ones who are sucking the life out of the middle class, abandoned this country for profit and drove wages down for the last 30 years. Who have pushed us down the ladder on longevity, health care, education and things like broadband speed.

      No one is going to create any product in this country anymore because two fo the things they need for success – modern infrastructure and an educated work force – are increasinly not there. Tax policy and regulations absolutely need reform, but without the workforce and infrastructure, fuhgedaboutit!

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    • Again, I’m one of the people who produce, and I don’t want to take what others produce, I just want to receive fair wages for my hard work, and I’d like not to get screwed over once I retire (I know, I know, good luck with that one). I will be at the protest on Thursday only because I happen to have some time off work.

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  8. If you were more-valuable to someone other than your current employer, you’d earn more. A “fair” wage is whatever you accept . . . by definition. No one has a gun at your head.

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  9. Cute, Moe. What President Obama calls “the new normal” is now scary and will get but worse. We are getting new taxes and new regulations each and every day specifically targeted at assuring that employers downsize rather than expand, layoff rather than employ.

    That said, if I wanted — and I might have to, given the devastation of my IRA — I could start a service today and be making more than eurobrat within a month. The only one who can hold me down is . . . me.

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    • Obama acknowledges the new normal which is proper. Most economists and economic reporters on the big business pubs – IBD, Fortune etc – and websites all have told us. We’re not pulling out of this anytime soon. It’s deep, it’s structural and oh, by the way, it’s not this President’s fault.

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  10. If you didn’t do what Steve Jobs did (Apple) when he dropped out of college, whom should we blame? If you didn’t do what Sam Walton invented (Walmart), whom should we blame? If you didn’t do what Jim Haslam did when he graduated from Tennessee, open a gas station, establish the Pilot brand, and develop it into the largest travel-center chain on the planet, whom should we blame? If you didn’t do what Bernie Marcus and Arthur Blank did, starting a big-box store in a vacant K-Mart, called “Home Depot”, then growing the company, whom should we blame? If you didn’t invent what Ray Kroc did (McDonald’s), whom should we blame?

    On the other hand, executive-branch-administrative-bureaucrat regulators have been publishing about 2,000 pages of new business regulations per week for more than two years. Blank, Marcus, Haslam, and a Walton daughter have each said publicly in the past year that in today’s environment, they could not have done what they back then did. Their businesses would never have started. Whom should we blame for that?

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    • Don’t believe for a minute that those super-acheivers, movers and shakers, innovators and giants would have done any differently. They would have found a way – and ‘but it’s hard’ certainly wouldn’t have caused any of them to walk away from making products and tons of money. Neither taxes nor regulations would have stopped them. A runner doesn’t quit because the weather is a little colder than yesterday. A champion is a champion because he is more ambitions and more dedicated and more focused and more of lots of things. That’s what made them special. To suggest that everyone can be them is pure nonsense.

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  11. I assume in order to make any sense of it that (“Don’t believe for a minute that those super-acheivers, movers and shakers, innovators and giants would have done any differently.”) you meant today. So, you’re saying that they were lying when they said that they couldn’t.

    Haslam opened his gas station in two months. Today, he’d (just out of college) have to borrow the money, buy the property, submit plans to regulators, and wait 3-4 years before selling his first gallon. It’s why even President Obama couldn’t find an “shovel-ready” jobs.

    Having already gotten off the ground, guys like Walton and Jobs, and Marcus and Blank, are supplied virtually 100% from overseas. There’s not a single iPod or iPad made in the U.S.

    An entrepreneur today is up against adhering to and reporting on nearly a quarter-million pages of new federal regulations and requirements published just in the last 24 months. Cannot be done.

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  12. Okay, Moe, so Marcus and Blank and Jobs and Walton and Haslam MADE options for themselves. eurobrat, on the other hand, says, “But of course it’s our own fault that we can’t create our own employment out of thin air,” and earlier, “Sure, there’s no gun at my head, but there are also no real options out there.”

    So, if Herman Cain is wrong when he says, ” if you’re not rich, it’s your fault,” whom should we blame?

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    • But only a small minority of people are going to create options for themselves and be successful enough at them that they do become rich. Unlike Herman Cain, I don’t want to be rich. So if I’m not one of the minority of people who become rich, does that mean I shouldn’t be able to make a decent wage, and get basic health care and retirement? That’s all I’m asking for, and no, I don’t think those of us who are not part of the small percentage who become wealthy are somehow to blame for something.

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  13. No one — not a single soul — has a responsibility to hire you or pay you “a decent wage” or give you “basic health care” or “retirement”.

    If, say, I need help with what I am producing, I may look to hire someo0ne to help me. If you express interest in doing the helping, I will assess what I think are your skills, motivation, and character, and offer you compensation. Then, you will be free to accept or reject my offer.

    If, then, you wish to retire — i.e., stop working and being employed — no one — not a single soul — has a nanowit of responsibility to buy you groceries and housing and entertainment and medical care, etc. Not even your mother.

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  14. Great, eurobrat. I need your address so I can send you my bills. get me outa the jungle. I’m liking this civilized thingy already.

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    • As I’m sure you know, that’s not how it works–it has to be organized the right way, obviously. But nice try and don’t worry, you *will* get the hang of civilization one day 😉

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  15. “But only a small minority of people are going to create options for themselves and be successful enough at them that they do become rich.”
    With respect, I believe that’s the kool-aid the 1% has convinced the other 99% to drink. What Dr. Pete’s examples show, and beyond that, what examples of even “lower-class” people who are now “middle-class” people will show, is that no matter what one has in terms of resources, they can always be resourceful and that’s up to the individual themselves.

    I deal with people all the time who have every reason to bitch about their situation and hate “The Man”. Some bitch, some don’t, but it’s predictable among them who’s situation is going to be short-lived and whose is going to be permanent, and the “gimme” attitude is a huge clue.

    Those bums in the park (granted, they’re not ALL bums) are going to be right back where they are 5 years from now simply because of their attitude and the choices they make and what’s too “beneath them” to do. Before they’ll go and take a crap job, they’ll protest that they automatically deserve one just because they dropped $50,000 on an education. What’s truly sad about the OWS people to me at this point is that they see no other choice than to basically squat.

    I’m not one of the 1%, but I’m definitely one of the 53%, like this guy.
    http://reflectionsofarationalrepublican.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/53percentphoto.jpg?w=480&h=640 (Thanks to ROAR for the pic – http://reflectionsofarationalrepublican.com/2011/10/10/we-are-the-insert-number-percent-who-occupy-insert-location/#comment-3372)

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    • Personally, I’m sick and tired of the conservative bums who can watch American taxpayers get ripped off by a criminal gang of corporate thugs, then stand idly by, doing nothing to bring the thieves to justice, or even worse, cheering for the robbers. That’s pretty repulsive. And the examples of corporations that produced useful goods that people actually wanted are a complete red herring–they have nothing whatever to do with the gang of finance capitalists who produced nothing but asset bubbles, then profited by bursting them, leaving only devastation in their wake. And BTW, your pal’s Photoshop technique is seriously lame.

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  16. eurobrat doesn’t think that individuals should rob others DIRECTLY. Instead, progressives get government to do the robbing for them. That’s called “organized”.

    Once the plunder is “organized”, however, eurobrat FEELS ENTITLED to “a decent wage, and get basic health care and retirement”. And money and time and property should be taken by force as necessary by government from those who’ve earned it and transferred to eurobrat because he feels entitled.

    eurobrat would seek to earn more, “but there are also no real options out there.” Gentex Corporation in Zeeland, Michigan has had a sign o0ut seeking workers for a couple of years now, but cannot find people who are qualified for the high-paying manufacturing jobs. MGS in Germantown, Wisconsin is in the same situation. A Manpower survey found that 52% of companies had difficulty hiring qualified people in 2011.

    There ARE jobs out there for those with the knowledge and skills. The problem with eurobrat may just be . . . well, eurobrat.

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  17. It’s not that “THE” problem, eurobrat, is just with you. It’s that YOUR problem is with you.

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