Just inappropriate

The street celebrations – flags waving and the USA, USA chant – made me uncomfortable. It was ‘off’ – looked like zealotry, something we’ve seen quite enough of in places like Iran.

I think the response from the people of a nation upon ‘smiting’ the one who so grievously wounded them should be as serious as the offense and should be  somber.  It’s a serious business, not a football game.

And I hate people wrapping themselves in the flag. Also. Anyway.

37 responses to “Just inappropriate

  1. Beneath The Tin Foil Hat

    I thought maybe I was the only one who felt like that. Instead of partying, we should be focused on reaching out to the friends and families of those were killed on 9-11. Hopefully they will find closure in this. My heart goes out to them on this day…

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  2. I had the same thoughts as how you described it. I was going to write a short post about it, but decided not to. Maybe its best left unsaid.

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  3. Yeah definitely “off”…reminds me a bit of Texans holding tailgate parties outside the penitentiary on execution night.

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  4. I couldn’t agree with ya more Moe…..

    And the guys are right…..
    People want to gloat……

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  5. Wow – a whole thread of agreement. I think my head just exploded!

    Nice that you guys feel the same.

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  6. My brother felt the same way as you. He’s such a buzzkill.

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  7. What are you afraid of, Moe?

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    • I’m afraid of dehumanization jonolan. I’m afraid of mobs and I’m afraid of cliches becoming wisdom. And I’m afraid of becoming our enemies. And I’m always afraid of hubris – it always bites you in the ass.

      Every single religion in the world would condemn celebrating death. When we do see it – and I’m sure some will say “but the Arab street did it” – it’s ugly. I want us to be better than that.

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  8. Beneath The Tin Foil Hat

    Well stated Moe. Ditto.

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  9. Jonolan ,

    Imagine how horrible it was all over the world on VE and VJ day in 1945 . I remember the picture of the sailor kissing the girl that was all over the place then . American flags, people celebrating . Or each city that American, British and French troops liberated in Europe , the women were hugging the soldiers and men brought out bottles of wine . Ugly, ugly .

    What was ugly to me was watching a bunch of middle eastern idiots burn American flags in the 80s and 90s for supporting Israel and listening to sympathetic CNN anchors wondering why they hated America. I much prefer the flag waving today in America and do not even mind Obama getting in front of the cameras .

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  10. Beneath The Tin Foil Hat

    Ooooh, the apples and orange argument and the “they did it why can’t we?” argument presented in one neat little package. How cute!

    Celebrating the end of a horrid war and the nationalistic celebration of bringing a mad man to justice are two different things. I can’t speak for everyone else, but I have no problem with killing the horrid prick. My problem is that killing one man means nothing. Terrorism will still run rampant and 3000 people from 9-11 are still dead. Furthermore, while everyone is jumping up and down celebrating like a bunch of British soccer hooligans, thousands more are still grieving their loved ones from that horrific day. As a country we should be focusing our energy on honoring the victims of 9-11 and consoling their families, instead of participating in some mass orgy of patriotic chest thumping.

    I didn’t like seeing the nationalist anti-American bullshit going on in the streets any more than you did. However that doesn’t mean we have to stoop to their level just because we got our man. American hubris is just going to bring more resentment and more terrorism.

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    • If you can, in all honestly to yourself, equate the joy Americans feel over the extermination of Osama with the joy that those Muslims showed over the various deaths of American, European, and Jewish innocents then you’re little or no better than Osama and should be handled in the same manner.

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      • Beneath The Tin Foil Hat

        Wow, you’re a freaking psychopath. That creepy Marilyn Manson avatar does you justice. You belong in a cage, not in public.

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      • carvingoutavoice

        I’m glad you’re not in any position of power and probably never will be with your charming, intelligent ways. It would soon be a planet of one if you plan on murdering anyone who doesn’t happen to share your opinions. Your humanity is underwhelming. What are you? The next McVeigh?

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  11. Beneath The Tin Foil Hat ,

    ” However that doesn’t mean we have to stoop to their level just because we got our man. American hubris is just going to bring more resentment and more terrorism. ”

    O you poor guilt ridden liberal . Sometimes it is okay to cheer for your own country . American hubris does not breed more resentment and terrorism . You liberals still do not have a clue . Islamic terrorists will cut your Atheist throat as quick as they’d cut my Christian throat . Fear of the American military is the only thing that prevents that, period . Having our military on their side is the only reason we have friends at all in the Arab world .

    I commend President Obama for demonstrating he has the will to use the military decisively . Friend and foe need to know that .

    Really it is okay to cheer .

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  12. Pingback: Wow, Some Dude Just Told Me I Should Be Treated Just Like Osama Bin Laden « Beneath the Tin Foil Hat

  13. Beneath The Tin Foil Hat

    At least I have a conscience. I can’t say the same for the whack job who just emerged from his compound in Idaho and wished me dead for having an opinion.

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    • A conscience? You can make an equivalency between innocent people and Osama bin Laden and you claim to have a conscience? That would be laughable except that we’re foolish enough to allow things like you to live among Americans.

      If some think this should be a solemn moment, fine. It’s the comparing the situations as the same that is your moral failing.

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      • Beneath The Tin Foil Hat

        If that’s the way you want to read into it, fine. That wasn’t my intent, but whatever. Still doesn’t change the fact that your a psychopath. You’re not qualified to talk about moral failings. Talk about something you’re knowledgeable about, like straight jackets or shock therapy.

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  14. This is a very tearing issue… on one hand, the spiritual leader of a psychotic organization has met a violent end and this can be seen as a form of closure for his victims. On one hand, I understand and sympathize with the desire of the American people, particularly those directly affected by the evil of bin Laden, for closure and some semblance of justice (or retribution).

    However, we should not be so quick to equate “closure” and “relief” with “justice”. Osama bin Laden’s one life can never atone for all the people he has, directly or indirectly, killed, wounded, or otherwise harmed. His death is closure for many, but it was never in our power to dispense complete justice. Once he had destroyed more than could be taken from him in retribution, he had exceeded the human capacity for justice.

    How else could this have ended? With hauling Osama before an international court for his crimes? There would have been no point in hauling bin Laden before an international tribunal or a court of any type for that matter. In his delusions bin Laden, as do all zealots, believed himself to be abiding by the infalliable word and directions of God – in his mind, he was above any moral code other than the one he believed was absolute. Why haul him before a tribunal that his mindset denied legitamacy? Also, we should not forget that Adolf Hitler used his trial after the failed Berlin Putch to make himself into a sort of German national celebrity prior to his rise to power. It was wise to deny Osama this avenue to further his disgusting message of evil.

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    • D.I.D. – I’ve tried twice before to reply here and for some reason I keep hitting some random key and losing the comment! Sometimes . . .

      So I’ll just say that I think of justice as being for the victim, not something we do to the offender. And that’s one reason to be more somber and serious about the killing of Bin Laden.

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      • Yeah. I’ve had similar troubles before with the comments.

        I have always considered justice to be two parts — consolation for the victim (like you mentioned) and some form of retribution as a deterrant to prevent others from committing the same crimes. Occasionally, as in this case, the two can overlap. You are right that more should be done to console the victims, but retribution is often an equally important aspect of justice.

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  15. It’s a serious business, not a football game.

    You forget, football is a shadow of war.

    People who don’t “understand football” wonder why we who do, well, do. It’s because, for us, football taps into the inner warrior in us. Football IS the coliseum. It IS the civilized war. The knights jousting at King Arthur’s Court.

    It simply IS conquest.

    And this is what the Left misses so often. We are, at our inner most selves, we are…. ourselves. We are the savage beast. We may not WANT to be that, We may work hard to overcome that. We may go to years of college and smoke a lot of weed to not be that. And to the extent we are NOT that, we should be applauded.

    But we are that.

    We are tribal. We are, in short, the “we”. And they who are not the we, well, they are the “they”. And since time immemorial, all God’s creatures resonate with the we and with the they. And when the “they” threaten the “we” and the “we” defeat the “they”, the “we” celebrate.

    And so the “we” should. It is, after all, why the “we” continue to be the “we” and not the “they”.

    In short, if it’s not already too late to be short, you have it backwards.

    Do not object that America rejoices in the death of an enemy; rather rejoice that we are able to substitute football for that death.

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    • pino – while your comment is thoughtful, as most of yours are, you know I will challenge it, but I won’t deny what you say because there is a deal of truth there.

      I think you left something out though – you left out that our nature is why we developed bodies of law. It’s why we developed standards of morality. In the context of those two things – I find satisfaction and justice in Osama’s death. I like the idea that the last thing he saw in life was the face of a Navy SEAL. That also is satisfying.

      But for me it stops there – I will never be able to ‘celebrate’, like our barbaric predecessors did, the killing of the enemy. We developed laws and standards because we aspire to certain behaviors, to always become better, and we work hard to supress the primal in ourselves. The tribal. The fear of the ‘other’.

      So I don’t like at all the dancing in the streets. And I’ll always disapprove of people literally wrapping themselves in flags – that’s war makeup. Also, however old fashioned, I beleive it violates the laws (or maybe it’s just protocols, but either way) for handling the flag.

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    • I’ve often thought that what determines a person’s politics boils down to what they mean when they use the word “we”. For some, “we” means their family, or the tribe, or a particular race, or some particular nation. I declared myself a citizen of this planet a long time ago, so for me, “we” means all of us — every person on the planet. Yes I’m an American, but I’m a human being first. The argument that humans have always been tribal savages, and thus will always remain savages, is false. We can expand our identity to include all of humanity. When we do that, the enemy, the “them”, disappears.

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      • I too have noticed the difference in how people use the word ‘we’. When Bush was waging a war I hated (Iraq) I hated what WE were doing – that’s how I said it and that how I thought of it.

        As long as I’m a citizen of hte USA and pay taxes, pretty much everything this country does it does in my name to some extent, with or without my consent on an issue by issue basis.

        And like you, I am consider myself first of earth, then a human, then a female, then an American. (Well, okay, you’re not a female)

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  16. Moe,
    First timer here. Just wanted to say thanks for letting me know that my feelings were not off base. Meanwhile, I will take the high road and not comment on the direction that many of the comments above have taken.

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    • Welcome frankangle. Glad you get what I said and share those feelings. Nothing in this thread could change how I feel and some of the comments sadden me greatly.

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  17. And this is what the Left misses so often. We are, at our inner most selves, we are…. ourselves. We are the savage beast(Pino)

    Yes we are competitive but that doesnt mean it has to be lethal. In fact many of our so called sports or games are specifically intended to take the killing out of it. I think we will slowly be on our way when we figure out all humans belong to the same tribe. I guess we need some good ole Aliens to bring home that message. 😉

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