It’s official: Bush was right all along

POSTED BY ORHAN

President Obama’s executive order signed Monday that sets up a system of indefinite detention for detainees held at Guantanamo Bay contains tons of verbiage defining initial reviews, triennial reviews, file reviews, Review Committees, and giving detainees rights to government representatives and private counsel.

Nevertheless, close reading shows there will be a single test used to determine whether a prisoner is deserving of our everlasting hospitality: “if it is necessary to protect against a significant threat to the security of the United States.

Who decides? A Periodic Review Board comprised of one rep each from “the Departments of State, Defense, Justice, and Homeland Security, as well as the Offices of the Director of National Intelligence and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff”.

Glenn Greenwald exhaustively lays out the case against Obama’s continuation of the Bush/Cheney policies.

32 responses to “It’s official: Bush was right all along

  1. Obama is just as full of evil shit as Bush was, and he reeks just as much. It’s been weak-kneed sellout after sellout. He must have got the crap beat out of him every day as a kid – he sure as hell never learned to stand up for anything like justice, dignity, or integrity.

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  2. Good call Moe…..

    Sometimes the other guy IS right….
    Hope your Youtube gets straighten out….

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  3. What can you expect from someone who went to Harvard?

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  4. Of course it isn’t funny. It’s a very sad statement about the sincere resolve of the President to live up to the promises of his campaign.
    So far he’s getting a C- to a D

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  5. Ms. Holland,

    It is a shame you did not catch Charles Krauthammer’s comment last night on Evil FoxNews. He said that when Obama & Co. actually got to see the reports that Bush &Co had seen about how dangerous these Guantanamo prisoners were, they were forced to change their tune.

    Will we on the right ever get an apology from Obama for the way he demagogued the issue ? Heck no .

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    • It’s more like this Alan: Congress imposed restrictions to stop the Exec Branch from being able to try the detainees in the US. The Administration has thrown up their hands for now and said okay, go ahead with the damn tribunals. The left is enraged about this, but I don’t think it’s over yet.

      Krauthammer is wrong.

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  6. C’mon guys, leave Moe be – Orhan wrote this post.

    The left is as angry as the right is ecstatic over this because Obama promised to return America to the rule of law. If these guys are so dangerous it should be easy enough to prove in court. But the only court they’ll get to see is the kangaroo variety.

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    • “If these guys are so dangerous it should be easy enough to prove in court.”
      With respect, when’s that supposed to be? After they’ve committed an act red-handed against our country? Otherwise it’s just suspicion, and that’s not good enough for civilian court.

      In the intelligence/terrorist/espionage world, both sides make an art out of deception in that regard. Most things only go as far as suspicion because if you’re in that world, you’re usually good at keeping your distance from anything that incriminates you directly while you still remain involved.

      Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we can just throw whoever we want in jail for no good reason, but I do think the military process needs be getting a little more respect than it gets from us who know very little about it. The Bush Administration did seem to go too far – that’s clear. Obama’s trying to bring it back, but that’s tough to do against an enemy that takes advantage of our rule of law and rules of engagement and uses it against us. Perhaps matters of terrorism are truly better left for the military to deal with in a time of war, and maybe Obama realizes it now that he’s getting intelligence he wasn’t getting when he was campaigning.

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      • “With respect, when’s that supposed to be? After they’ve committed an act red-handed against our country?”

        Well, actually it’s supposed to be at the trials these guys should be getting, but of course that’s the point that’s in dispute.

        The argument for preventive war and preventive detention is patently false; the notion that the assertion of imminent attack is justification for the preventive act, with no evidence required, is absurd. On that basis, anybody could justifiably attack anybody else, just by claiming they themselves were about be attacked. And that’s exactly the right the US government is claiming for itself in this case; the evidence is what those demanding trials for the detainees want to see.

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        • “The argument for preventive war and preventive detention is patently false; the notion that the assertion of imminent attack is justification for the preventive act, with no evidence required, is absurd.”
          Not disagreeing with you there. I believe the fine point, however, is how public that evidence should be and whether or not it puts the country at risk if it’s made public. The public doesn’t have access to our battle plans or our defense strategies for a reason, and I think to a large extent it’s the same reason why most terrorist cases should be handled by a military court. They are simply allowed to see more and know more than we do at a civilian level.

          Now, whether they do a good job of handing those cases or not is a whole other animal, but for people to sit there and say “I support our troops” and then insult our soldiers who serve in the military court system as being goons, idiots, or evil people is hypocritical. People that do that I think are making judgments about people and a system that very little, if anything, about and have zero direct experience with.

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          • “I believe the fine point, however, is how public that evidence should be and whether or not it puts the country at risk if it’s made public…most terrorist cases should be handled by a military court.”

            It’s important to recognize here that there is no court for these prisoners, military or civilian. The Periodic Review Boards operate under very lax rules and the only question they determine is whether the detainee is a threat to the US, based on information provided by the Secretary of Defense. These are not trials that determine if the prisoner has committed a crime.

            And I certainly did not intend to insult our military – it’s just that (true or not) I don’t believe these reviews are courts at all.

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          • [then insult our soldiers who serve in the military court system as being goons, idiots, or evil people ]

            I lived thru Vietnam and I remember that stuff. I haven’t seen any of it since 9/11 – who is calling them goons or idiots? We did call the Abu Ghraib guards goons and idiots, but that’s because they were goons and idiots! I’m serious though – can you point me to someone (who matters) using that language about the military?

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          • Oh, and hi Vern!

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  7. ojmo,

    You are so wrong. Let me try logic on you. It won’t work, but as a Christian, I have to go the extra mile and give you a chance. Obama is your hero, your guy, the guy you put in as President. Barak Obama made a big deal of closing Gitmo. He demonized Bush for Gitmo. Still with me.

    He got all of you lefties all worked up. He has to know that reversing himself would make him look bad in front of you guys. So why would he do it ? He did it because he knew these guys have to be locked up and the keys thrown away.

    Look at the one guy he did send to trial. Acquitted on a couple hundred counts and only found guilty on one count . Ghailani almost walked .

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    • Hi Alan, if I have it right, you’re saying that Obama repudiated his own beliefs and risked the ire of his base after he realized how dangerous to America some of the Gitmo detainees are.

      It may be true or untrue that the detainees are dangerous – we just don’t know, and Obama’s not telling us what information he has. I certainly wouldn’t take his word for it. But too dangerous to put on trial? No way!

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  8. Moe you check with WordPress?

    They have a forum for problems and you send them questions…http://en.support.wordpress.com/contact/

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  9. you CAN send them questions….Please try the link I sent you…..

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    • Hey james! I’m back into youtube through my google account. I still need to get back to my original account. will follow your link. Thanks.

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  10. Glenn Greenwald has been writing a lot on the Gitmo/prisoner rights issue since the beginning. Although he’s a little too “left” for me agree with him on what the rules should be, he makes a pretty good case for what the rules actually are.

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  11. ojmo,

    Hi.

    ” Hi Alan, if I have it right, you’re saying that Obama repudiated his own beliefs and risked the ire of his base after he realized how dangerous to America some of the Gitmo detainees are. ”

    That is my belief .

    ” Obama’s not telling us what information he has. I certainly wouldn’t take his word for it. ”

    Give me another reason why President Obama would royally screw his base on this. I mean, candidate Obama was no Bush lovin crazy conservative.

    ” But too dangerous to put on trial? No way! ”

    I remind you that FDR , the Liberal’s God, held military trials for German saboteurs in WWII, and executed some of them . He had no scruples or doubts about it , at all .

    When you are talking national security all kinds of information can come out in a public trial . Information that can get Americans killed .

    My point in this is that President Obama is finding out that Senator Obama was wrong .

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    • [FDR , the Liberal’s God, held military trials for German saboteurs in WWII, and executed some of them . ]

      Germany was a nation state and we had declared war against them.

      Alan, many people in this world wish our country ill and harbor desires to hurt us; are you suggesting we round them up?

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    • “Give me another reason why President Obama would royally screw his base on this.”

      One reason could be because he’s got nothing – no proof of past wrongdoing, only suspicion of future wrongdoing. This is the basis for preventive detention, which Obama appears as committed to as his predecessor.

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  12. Ms. Holland,

    ” Alan, many people in this world wish our country ill and harbor desires to hurt us; are you suggesting we round them up? ”

    You are confusing the argument . Anyone who is at war with the US is at war with the US . The people at Gitmo are as dangerous as German spies were in WWII . We don’t have to round them up . We have captured them on the battlefield and in acts of terrorism. FDR would have had no hesitation in executing them . At least the ones who need it .

    But you have sidetracked me . None of you have told me why, why why Obama would have reversed himself on Gitmo, if I am wrong that he realized the danger .

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  13. Ojmo,

    ” One reason could be because he’s got nothing – no proof of past wrongdoing, only suspicion of future wrongdoing. This is the basis for preventive detention, which Obama appears as committed to as his predecessor. ”

    Thank you for giving me your best answer . That must have taken some ideological gymnastics . At this point if I were arguing with my daughter and I took your position, she would continue to come back with Why? Why is the President committed to preventive detention, when it hurts him politically . The answer is what I said before . President Obama is seeing confidential security briefings that President Bush read, and that Senator Obama did not get .

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    • OK, since I outlined a possible scenario and you stated an indisputable fact, what were the contents of the security briefings? What information did they convey that caused Obama to so betray his deepest beliefs? I don’t see it.

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