As it always was

Well this is pretty disgusting. I followed a link and found this headline with some pix of Muslims praying on streets in NYC. No comment on that,  just on this headline.

DISGUSTING! OUTRAGEOUS! ASS-IN-THE-AIR MUSLIMS soiling the streets of Manhattan

I’m Irish. My paternal grandparents immigrated to NYC. Public moods were fed by the newspapers of the day, who loved to portray Irish as monkeys.  But, as Jews like to say of their own history, “The came to kill us; we beat them; let’s eat” (I love that).

Anyway, feast your eyes on these.

The one titled CONTRASTED FACES reads – on left – Florence Nightingale, and – on the right – Bridget McBrutish. Cute, eh? Here’s more:

Caption is IRISH MONKEY

95 responses to “As it always was

  1. I totally disagree, Moe. Muslims praying on our streets is sickening to me, also. This is without a doubt a totally different set of circumstances then when the Irish came. The Irish came from the same homeland as us, West Europe. Brought with them the same religion as us, Catholicism/Christianity. Looked like us. Spoke our language. Were Anglo-Saxon like us. These Muslims, Moe, are an entirely different ball game. The Koran, unlike the loving, inspirational New Testament that our people follow, is a manifesto of hatred. Just read it. The fact that the Muslims follow it to the letter is self-evident to anyone with eyes. Furthermore, Muslims are commanded to overthrow infidel society and set up Sharia Law. World history testifies that they have done this many times. They will no doubt do it again. Throughout the history of World, immigration of conflicting culture holds one and only one constant. Overthrow. We have a God given right to protect our people, our culture, and our way of life. These are the facts.

    Like

    • Can’t agree Sam. When the Irish came, there were hardly any Catholics in the US (quite a few around the Carolinas though) and people thought the Pope drank the blood of babies. It was ugly, ugly. Congressmen tried to pass laws to keep the “Papists” out.

      The Koran resembles the Old Testament on which it is modeled.

      You are assigning the attitudes of the very worst of the radical muslims to all muslims. That is wrong.

      The minute we restrict one religion in this country we stop being the United States of America. I don’t know what we become, but we leave behind the country we’ve always been.

      Like

    • The Koran, unlike the loving, inspirational New Testament […]

      Oh you mean the same new testament that instated the idea of hell and eternal torture?

      Check.

      Like

  2. I agree, this was puritan country before the Irish came. Catholicism is in fact a christian religion, though, in that the Deity of Christ is taught, while the muslims do NOT believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. Regardless, I couldn’t care less about religion, anyway. It should ALL be outlawed, as all it does is create division and cause strife. As a christian, I can pray in my closet. That’s what Jesus taught. The problem is, Moe, is that their religion calls for our overthrow. That’s the difference.

    Like

    • [ the muslims do NOT believe that Jesus was God in the flesh]

      Neither do Hindus, Buddhists, Confucians, Shintos or a dozen other world religions.

      I beleive 1/6 of the world is Christian. And they are the only ones who believe Jesus was god.

      Like

  3. Oh, and you said that I shouldn’t let the actions of some muslims affect my attitude of all of them, or something like that. Consider this: Not all members of the KKK have done violence or advocate violence, in fact, most do not. But the fact remains, Moe, that they ALL subscribe to that doctrine, or else they wouldn’t be members. Therefore, they should ALL be held in contempt. The same with muslims. Few actually do the THINGS THE KORAN TEACHES, but ALL subscribe to it, so all should be held in contempt.

    Like

  4. Or, what’s good for the goose is what’s good for the gander. Let us examine, Moe. 1. KKK or Christian Idenity. Muslims. Both religions. 2. KKK doctrine is anti-semetic. The Koran is anti-semetic. 3. KKK has history of violence. Islam has much worse and more recent history of violence. 4. Both are protected by Bill of Rights. 5. KKK is denounced as the worst thing in the world. If you denounce muslims, you are a bigot. So anyway, what gives? (talk your way out of this one! :P)

    Like

  5. Arbourist: The New Testament is very loving, and inspirational. Yes, Jesus spoke of The Second Death quite often. However, consider this for a moment: If you KNEW, for whatever reason, that something terrible was going to befall a loved one, then would not it be out of love that you warn them? Would you not inspire them to go the other way? Loving and Inspirational, indeed. “For the wages of Sin is Death, but the Gift of God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” -Rom. 6:23

    Like

  6. The Arbourist,

    ” Oh you mean the same new testament that instated the idea of hell and eternal torture? ”

    In the after life, you know,,, that place you don’t have to worry about . Show us where that New Testament calls for the followers of Christ to kill Infidels. I missed that part in Sunday School.

    Like

    • I figured I would point out that trying to say one religion is crap by using ‘proof’ from your own particularly crappy religion is not saying very much.

      It is like saying Horton Hears a Who is a terrible book based on my adherence to the Green Eggs and Ham doctrine. Biased, illogical, and absurd argumentation gets no points when discussing topics as rationally adults.

      Mr Scott, I imagine you did not burn too many witches in Sunday school either, but then again you could have missed that too. 🙂

      Like

  7. Great point, Alan! Bravo! Yeah, Arbourist, The New Testament is describing something that you deem of no consequence. Something that has nothing to do with our time on the Earth. The Koran commands muslims to kill. Jesus said, “Love your enemies”, and “If they don’t recieve you, shake the dust off your feet as you walk away.” The Koran teaches to kill those who don’t recieve you. The Golden Rule, “Do unto others…”, is in The New Testament. The Koran, on the other hand, teaches murder and hatred. Check.

    Like

    • And other new testament ‘wisdom’….

      Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. – Matthew 5:17

      Cities that neither “receive” the disciples nor “hear” their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). Matthew – 10:14-15

      Any city that doesn’t “receive” the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark – 6:11

      Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants “thrust down to hell” for not “receiving” his disciples. Luke – 10:10-15

      Hmm, these examples and 144 other instances of cruelty in the new testament.

      So again, pot meet kettle. The bible and the koran are both dysfunctional rantings of ignorant people. Nice stories, but both need to be firmly seated in the fiction section where their rantings can be viewed in an appropriate light.

      Like

  8. In your ignorance, you have proved my point. Thank you for finding the examples of God being the one to dish out the punishment, as that is precisely the point I’m trying to make. Christianity teaches that vengeance belongs to God, while Islam teaches that muslims should carry out the wrath of “Allah”. Jesus gives everyone free will. If you don’t follow Him, you die spiritually. If you don’t follow Islam, however, you die physically. That fundamental difference, Arbourist, is what makes Islam so dangerous.

    Like

  9. Good job Samuel. The ignorance of The Arbourist and Moe astounds me. Moe says the Koran was modeled after the old testament. Uh … really? point out some similiarities. The Old Testament basically is the history of the Jews. You can find a similar historical account in the book of Josephus.
    Islam is not a religion. It has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality. And if you want to talk about intolerance…it’s called Islam. The epitome of wickedness.

    Like

    • Steve – there are three religions whose traditions spring from the Old Testament, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. They are collectively known as “the people of the Book” as as being “Abrahamic religions”. Ancient Jews broke with the traditions of their day in Egypt and elsewhere by embracing the ocncept of one god – the first truly monotheistic religion. Christianity and Islam embraced that concept (although Christianity did push it a little iwth the father, son and holy ghost and all the saints who were sort of minor gods). All three have always believed themselves to be worshipping the same god – the differences were in who they accepted as the messenger.

      Islam honors Jesus as among the greatest of Prophets, but do not assign him divinity. Jews also see him as a real biblical personage, but not the Messiah they were looking for.

      In any case, even if you and Alan and Sam were right about Islam, what do you propose? There are a billion Muslims from the Middle East, to Asia to Indonesia etc. Half a dozen nukes? Wipe ’em all out? Fight conventional wars for the next hundred years?

      Like

      • Moe, you are confused. You stated Islam was modeled after the Old Testament. The Old Testament, beyond pointing to Jesus as the Christ to come, has little to do with Christianity. Abraham, Issac, and Jacob … the lineage of the Hebrew people. Abraham commonly known as the Father of the Jews. Issac and Ishmael … Issac = Jews. Ishmael = Arabs.
        I don’t know that Islam acknowledges Jesus as being a prophet or not. I haven’t read the Koran. I do know that Jews in general do not acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah. Though the historian Josephus, which I mentioned did state specifically that Jesus (paraphrasing) should not even be referred to as a “man” because of the many wonderous and miraculous things he did. And Josephus was not a believer. gotta go for now.

        Like

        • So Steve you haven’t read Quran, infact you don’t even know what Quran says about Jesus, Mary, Moses, Solomon, David and others yet you know that Quran teaches Terrrorism and is not a religion but a hatful ideology.
          You are an intellectual. I am glad I am not.

          Like

        • [You stated Islam was modeled after the Old Testament]

          No I didn’t Steve – saying it ‘sprung from’ is quite different than ‘modeled after’, although maybe I’m splitting hairs here.

          Like

  10. I wouldn’t propose wiping them all out, Moe. But what I would propose is a serious, serous type of legislation that would make the practicing of Islam, as well as any religion/political system that teaches it’s followers to kill as unconstitutional. I would propose restricting the immigration of muslims as well. These 2 proposals are not Un-Constitutional. The Constitution guarentees liberty to Americans. Just because you live here does not make you an American.

    Like

    • [legislation that would make the practicing of Islam, as well as any religion/political system that teaches it’s followers to kill as unconstitutional]

      Sam – that’s about as un-Constitutional as you can get. Really.

      And by the way, the Constituion provides protection and rights to all persons who live here, not just Americans.

      Like

  11. Holy trinity means that Jesus==God of Old Testament==Holy Spirit, yeah? So the word of Jesus is the word of God.

    *If this is wrong and Jesus is NOT god, say so and skip rest of comment, as it follows from this being accurate and doesn’t mean anything if it isn’t. If this is accurate, read on :)*

    The thing about ‘==’ is that it works both ways, so that means, the word of God is also the word of Jesus (which is supported by that ‘not abolishing the old law’ bit from the sermon on the mount). So, if God commands that

    “The man who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the LORD your God must be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel”

    as he does in Deuteronomy 17:12, and Jesus==God, that means that Jesus does in fact command that you kill people who disrespect Christian priests (for one example picked out of a mind-boggling many).

    And don’t you dare say that Christianity cannot be taken to mean that, because it has, it is, and I fear it will continue to be taken that way for some time. Look in a history book. Look at current events.

    Now, on the other hand, you could say that there are lots of Christians who do not take their faith like that, but then you sound just like those people who say that there are Muslims who don’t take their faith like the violent extremists do. Damn that ‘logical consistency’ thing!

    Either way, christianity and islam are in the same boat.

    Or if you, for some reason, don’t like that logic thing (because I know that as a rule, most religious people don’t) another way to look at is that (as many believers have told me) the aim of christianity is to be as christ-like as one possibly can.

    If that’s the case, then christianity does indeed teach the killing of thousands of people, cause that’s exactly what jesus does in revelations. By killing non-believers and adulterers, you’d be more jesus-like, and that has to be a good thing, right? That’s what the bible says, anyway.

    ‘oh but he hasn’t done that yet!!’ I can hear you already. But you believe he WILL. Further more, you believe he is eternal and beyond time, so this ‘before’, ‘after’, ‘not yet’, ‘that was old testament this is new’, holds absolutely zero meaning when talking about your deity of choice. Oh that darn ‘being eternal’ thing. Didn’t think that one would come back to bite ya, did you?

    Like

  12. You’re an idiot. You twisted God’s Word in a pathetic attempt to link The Old and New Testaments, so you could link Christians to Muslims. The Old Testament is the Law, which has been rendered moot. Christianity is based on The New Testament. A perfect example is when Jesus stopped the woman from being stoned without regard to what The Old Testament says. The fact remains, you cannot give me one example of Jesus, or the New Testament encouraging anyone to commit murder. You are a fool.

    Like

    • You’re an idiot.

      And you are a deluded individual who would rather believe in fairy tales than anything resembling reality. ( I am tired of you labelling people who do not agree with you and your assorted mythology as ‘ignorant, idiotic or foolish).

      SR: You twisted God’s Word in a pathetic attempt to link The Old and New Testaments, so you could link Christians to Muslims.

      Mystro said: Holy trinity means that Jesus==God of Old Testament==Holy Spirit, yeah? So the word of Jesus is the word of God.

      How is this twisting anything, either you believe in this trinity or you do no. If you accept this (irrational) statement then the rest of Mystro’s argument stands.

      Getting all offended because some is calling you on your bullshit and then calling him an idiot or foolish does nothing to enhance your case.

      So you have to start by either saying that the trinity does not apply to jeebus, in which case you are not believing your magic book, or you do believe in the trinity and jeebus like mohammad says a lot about the killing of others.

      Either position is hard to defend as they both point to the cruelty that is inherent in the the fabric of both religions being discussed.

      Like

  13. As for the scripture you used, understand this: Death was the punishment for sin. Just know that in the Old Testament, the Price had not yet been paid. Christ had not yet come. “For the wages of Sin is Death, but the Gift of God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” -Rom. 6:23 The price has now been paid. Forgiveness is the name of the game, now. Furthermore, we are to aspire to be like Christ was on Earth, not as Christ the Judge. God says, “Vengance is Mine”. “Allah” says, “vengance is yours!”

    Like

  14. And as for God being Eternal, and not changing: You took that out of context, as well. God doesn’t change, in that he is always Good. In that He always stands by His Word. In that He Was, Is, and Is to Come. It doesn’t mean what you say it means. God always had it planned this way. Before He laid the foundation of the World, the Plan of Salvation was at work. Jesus Was already crucified. But things still had to play out from a human perspective as A REFLECTION OF WHY THINGS ARE THE WAY THEY ARE.

    Like

    • God doesn’t change, in that he is always Good.

      I imagine the people of the cities he commanded to be razed and the people murdered in his name did not think he was ‘good’.

      Frankly, even if god did exist, I hardly think he would be classified as ‘good’.

      Epicurus stated the problem elegantly with this argument.

      1. If a perfectly good god exists, then there is no evil in the world.
      2. There is evil in the world.
      3. Therefore, a perfectly good god does not exist.

      Plus a video furthering the case. :>

      Like

  15. Lastly, as to whether or not God exists: I just want you to think about one thing (how marvelous it is that we can think!). Before you were created, you were NOT IN EXISTENCE, going backward as far as the eye can see. When you die, and die you will, you will not be in existence going forward as for as the eye can see. In this brief moment, directly in the middle of eternity you awaken briefly to life. You have a choice. Do you accept Jesus Christ? …… And you say this all happened by accident?

    Like

    • You have a choice. Do you accept Jesus Christ?

      Do you believe the rantings of superstitious bronze age people or do you embrace rationality?

      Wow, tough choice. Rationality please.

      …… And you say this all happened by accident?

      Damn, playing the creationist bingo card and you got the centre square for the ‘just by accident’ trope. I QFT section nine from what Calilasseia has to say about this particular trope.

      “Few things are more calculated to result in the critical thinkers here regarding a poster as a zero-IQ tosspot with blancmange for brains, than the erection of the “chance” canard. Usually taking the form of “scientists think life arose by chance”, or variants thereof such as “you believe life was an accident”. This is, not to put too fine a point upon it, bullshit.

      What scientists actually postulate, and they postulate this with respect to every observable phenomenon in the universe, is that well defined and testable mechanisms are responsible. Mechanisms that are amenable to empirical test and understanding, and in many cases, amenable to the development of a quantitative theory. Two such quantitative theories, namely general relativity and quantum electrodynamics, are in accord with observational reality to fifteen decimal places. As an aside, when someone can point to an instance of mythology producing something this useful, the critical thinkers will sit up and take notice, and not before.”

      So, put the ‘happened by accident’ nonsense away it is a nonsensical and puerile argument.

      Like

  16. Moe, I really appreciate this post of yours.

    There is only so much Muslims can do to counter the propaganda machine. Moderate Americans should speak up against racism towards Arabs, Asians and Muslims just like they did for African-Americans.

    & I won’t even bother to respond to the allegations of these people full with hate and ignorance, except that Muslim believe in One God, not in some confused contrary ideology of 3 in 1. Sometimes I wonder who created Adam and Eve, Jesus or God. We believe in God and God has no partner nor son. That was the religion of Abraham, and his progeny, including Moses and Jesus son of Mary.

    http://umersultan.wordpress.com/2009/12/25/jesus-son-of-mary-isa-ibn-maryam/

    Like

  17. You people actually think that this World created itself? If there is one constant in this Universe, it is that all things that exist, were created somehow. All created things must have a creator. You have the World, and the Universe. Without God, The Universe, that is, all things except God, must have came into being without God. Hence, the Universe created itself. But all things created must have a seperate creator. If anything exists outside of creation, then that thing would not have a creator. “I AM.”

    Like

    • All created things must have a creator.

      Citation needed.

      But all things created must have a seperate creator.

      Who created god?

      The babble is strong with this one. Saying ‘goddidit’ is about as useful as attempting to urinate into the wind.

      Please launch into a sophomoric word salad of how you are going avoid an infinite regression about who created god in 3…2…1….

      Like

  18. And before you start spouting man-made nonsense about amino acids or Quantum Mechanics, let me stop you now. My Faith is in the Rock of God’s Word. It is Written, “God chose the foolish things of this World to confound the wise.” -1 Cor. 1:27

    Like

    • And before you start spouting man-made nonsense about amino acids or Quantum Mechanics, let me stop you now.

      You mean let rationality, science and fact enter a religious discussion? I hear ya, I’m totally against that dude.

      My Faith is in the Rock of God’s Word. It is Written,

      Hey, that is fine and great. But… when you spout your godbagging tomfoolery out in public interwebz expect to get called on your bullcookery.

      Your arguments are based on faith, not fact, and are not worth much more than the scorn, derision and ridicule they attract.

      So, to interact reasonably out here in rational land with other adults, you need to at least act rational and have better evidence than “my magic book says so”.

      Like

  19. And it’s also written, “Without number are the occasions in which pea-brained little atheists have gotten pwned by the Fact of this World.” -3 Samuel 19:81

    Like

  20. God always Was. That is why He Is God, and we are not. Time is of no consequence to Him, as He created time. He is the only self-sustaining Entity in Existence. Without begining. Without end. “I AM THAT I AM.” That is what makes Him God. And that is what makes “all of this” possible. He Spoke.

    Like

    • Sorry Sam – I can as well say the Universe always WAS as easily as saying god always was. We just have to decide which of those forces makes the most sense to us.

      And since I have never been able to get my head around why a ‘creator’ would have any relationship to good and evil, I can’t choose religion. Or god.

      Like

    • Shorter SR:

      Goddidit!

      Now stop asking questions or I will have to do some more serious hand-waving!

      Like

  21. The Word of God is True. And we live in a fallen world. God did not create Sin. God created Man, and gave him free will. Man chose Sin. And now the World is ravaged by it. God did not create an imperfect World. He allowed for Sin only as a way to give Man a choice. Man chose. And God, being a righteous God, must punish Sin. And if that seems cruel, know this: God is not defined by what is good. What is good is defined by God. If God does it, it is automatically good. Like it or not. It is not our place.

    Like

    • I realize it is Sunday, and all but really do we need a sermon? I mean, couldn’t we at least have a nice one rather than one based on nothing but baseless conjecture and wishful thinking?

      Like

  22. Ms. Holland,

    You seem to agree with the Arbourist that we are merely physical beings, soulless wonders . If every thing we do and think are just the result of bio-chemical brain responses inherited from our tree dwelling forebearers, then why care that some of us believe in God. We can’t help it if are biologically predisposed to care about where we go after we cast off this flesh.

    Then again, since your Universe of Consciousness is destroyed when you die, why care at all about this World when you’re gone ?

    Like

    • It’s a fascinating question Alan and reminds me how much we don’t know.

      I call myself secular; I resist the descriptor atheist, because that assumes a certainty the other way (sorry Arb!). And I just don’t know – I feel no presence of a controlling superior being, but I am fully aware of our innate spirituality.

      The human reaches for knowledge and understanding. We like to know why. So I understand religion. It just doens’t owrk for me.

      Like

      • I call myself secular; I resist the descriptor atheist, because that assumes a certainty the other way (sorry Arb!).

        *grins* Hey no problem Moe, although I think the best you can get out of me is that there probably is no god. There just isn’t evidence for it. 🙂 I’m quite willing to change my views, keeping in mind that fantastic claims require a great deal of supporting evidence. 🙂

        Like

    • Then again, since your Universe of Consciousness is destroyed when you die, why care at all about this World when you’re gone ?

      Right back at you Mr.Scott, why should you care once you die and go to heaven (or hell or limbo or…)? I mean, I think it would be quite a party in the land of milk and honey and since you are not going back to Earth, why would you care? 🙂

      Like

  23. I can buy that. I believe in a way that when it comes to what is fact, every single one of us is agnostic. However, I am an exception because of a traumatic experience I had when I was 17. I swear on the life of my daughter, Destiny Ann, that what I am about to tell you is 100% true.

    Like

  24. I was raised in a religious family. I had accepted Christ as my Saviour at a very young age. I never questioned the existence of God. That is, until I became a teenager. As I came into my own as an adult, I wondered about things that I had always accepted as fact. And the more I enjoyed life as a teenage boy, the more it began to dawn on me just how inconvenient it would be if there WAS a God. Nobody wants to live in fear. And nobody wants to live a restricted lifestyle. So l became an atheist. I was 17.

    Like

  25. Then, shortly before my 18th birthday, I was playing playstation and smoking pot with my friend. He was an atheist as well, and had always tried to “show me the light”. So we are playing, and then I just cut loose. I open up in total blaspemy. And the last thing I said, or rather attempted to say, changed my life forever.

    Like

  26. “I don’t believe that when we die, we either go to Heaven or Hell.” Except, I didn’t complete that statement. What I did get out was, “I don’t believe that when we die” …

    Like

  27. The reason I stopped, was because I was very rudely interupted. I stopped out of horror. As I was speaking those words there was, the best way I can describe it, an “echo” opened from deep within me. And every word that proceeded from my mouth, was reflecting my eternal damnation. It was almost as if I was hearing those words on Judgement Day, and they were reflecting my fate. God stopped me dead in my tracks. Like Paul, I was stopped on my own Damascus Road. And I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, He Is.

    Like

  28. Now you can laugh at me all you want. But it is true.

    Like

  29. Moe, you said that you could just as easily believe that the Universe always was. Not really. For something to always exist, it has to have a very unique quality. It has to be self-sustainable. The Universe had a beginning, Big Bang, and the Universe will have an end, a Big Crunch (as gravity gets too strong and pulls everything back), or Big Freeze. In any case, the Universe is not self-sustainable. And since every single thing has a beginning, at some point, something would have to be self-sustainable.

    Like

  30. Arbourist: You are a pompous ass. How dare you suggest that my level of intelligence does not merit the level of confidence I have. I put no confidence in myself. My confidence lies in God. My statements are not from an arrogant perspective. With that said, I know how smart I am. And I can debate intelligently with anyone. You obviously think that anyone capable of believing in God must be lacking rationality. You typify the Dunning-Kruger effect in that you pass off your opinions as fact.

    Like

    • Arbourist: You are a pompous ass. How dare you suggest that my level of intelligence does not merit the level of confidence I have.

      Keeping within a reasonable level of decorum is all that I will do. You seem though hell bent on proving what I merely suggest.

      My confidence lies in God.

      My confidence lies in Pink Unicorns. I have not seen them, or talked with them or even touched one. But woo-nanny! They exist because my Book on Pink Unicorns says it does, and that is good enough for me.

      And I can debate intelligently with anyone.

      Citation needed.

      You obviously think that anyone capable of believing in God must be lacking rationality.

      That would be an assumption made by you on my behalf. I respect many people who are religiously-addled because they make a reasonable amount of sense apart from the god-bothering.

      Usually they do not let 2000 year old ‘wisdom’ affect the important choices in life as they can see the inherent problems and contradictions in embracing such a notion.

      You typify the Dunning-Kruger effect in that you pass off your opinions as fact.

      Nothing I opine about should necessarily be construed as fact. Although evidence, as usual would be required to make your claim resonate any more than a listless tu-quoque attack. I appreciate your vote though as one who is an authority on many important things but it really a misplaced idea.

      The ideas I do put forward usually have a base somewhere in fact, or at least logic. The problem is that, your claims, do not share this quality and therefore require skeptical analysis to quantify their truth value.

      Like

  31. If we live in a World without Absolute Truth, then what is Science? Opinion. Science is about searching for better answers. What was proven yesterday may be disproven today. That is what makes God’s Word so special. It’s revelance, not unlike God Himself, is timeless. He restored marriages, freed drug addicts, saved sinners yesterday, and He is doing it today. Science, like the mere men who study it, is subject to change. But The Word of God, It abides forever.

    Like

    • If we live in a World without Absolute Truth, then what is Science?

      Science (from Latin: scientia, meaning “knowledge”) is a systematic enterprise of gathering knowledge about nature and organizing and condensing that knowledge into testable laws and theories.[1] As knowledge has increased, some methods have proved more reliable than others, and today the scientific method is the standard for science. It includes the use of careful observation, experimentation, measurement, mathematics, and replication — to be considered a science, a body of knowledge must stand up to repeated testing by independent observers.

      There, even a link back to Wikipedia if you are extra interested.

      What was proven yesterday may be disproven today.

      And that is why science continues to grow and advance while religion remains an intellectually stagnant backwater.

      That is what makes God’s Word so special. It’s revelance, not unlike God Himself, is timeless.

      Just like his instructions on how to sell your daughter into slavery, and how to keep your slaves is timeless wisdom. Oh and by the way…

      Citation needed.

      He restored marriages, freed drug addicts, saved sinners yesterday, and He is doing it today.

      Citation needed.

      But The Word of God, It abides forever.

      Or as long as the people are willing to accept this destructive mythology as anything more than a story.

      Like

  32. Atheists don’t believe in Absolute Truth, but yet they believe Science is. Atheists also don’t believe good and evil are real things, either. Just things conjured up by people, of which varies by society. Keep in mind that what is evil is defined solely by God’s Word. His Law is written on the stone tablets of the Human Heart. We have the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That is why every society from the History of the World has come to the same conclusion that Murder, Stealing, Lying, Adultery, etc. is wrong.

    Like

    • Sam – I read every word you wrote and I recognize your sincerity (although I do wonder why in past ocmments you’ve said all religion is evil).

      I asked a question upstream and ask it again. Even if we stipulate there is a superior being of some sort, how do we draw the line from there to morality? Why would a supreme being concern itself?

      Like

    • Atheists don’t believe in Absolute Truth, but yet they believe Science is. Atheists also don’t believe good and evil are real things, either.

      This would be an example of what presenting a Strawman argument looks like. You present the claim that Atheists do not believe in Absolute Truth, which I believe you to mean the word of god, and based on that you make the false assumption that we do believe in good and evil either.

      Good and Evil are arbitrary terms, and really exist independently of whether we believe in them or not.

      Just things conjured up by people, of which varies by society.

      Most likely, morality, like religion, are man made constructs.

      Keep in mind that what is evil is defined solely by God’s Word. His Law is written on the stone tablets of the Human Heart. We have the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

      Citation needed.

      That is why every society from the History of the World has come to the same conclusion that Murder, Stealing, Lying, Adultery, etc. is wrong.

      Or that certain practices caused certain societies to prosper over time and to overtake the societies that did not adopt these practices.

      You see, no magic and no sky-fairies involved in the process at all 🙂

      Like

  33. Alas, my notebook and phone is down, so I am using my psp, my last internet source (thing God I have my own wi-fi router). I have limited space to write with, so I will have to respond to your two-fold question with two replies using two seperate comments. Forgive the me for bulkying up your blog, Moe, for I am dirt poor. 😦 Comments to follow…

    Like

  34. I have said in the past that religion is evil, and I stand by that. In a progressive society, particularly the utopia I dream of, there can be no place for the disruptive division that religion brings. I do not believe that my brand of Christianity would be retarded by such a law abolishing the right to practice religion, and here is why: In the Book of Acts, when the Jews were arguing amongst themselves over whether or not to snuff out the Disciples of Christ, one Jew stood up and made a remark. *cont*

    Like

  35. *contd* He said, “There have been many movements that have arose in the past, and all of those movements ran their course, and over time fizzled away. If this movement truly be from God, then it will thrive no matter what man does.” That is why, Moe, that I believe every religion is subject to the mercy of man. Except for, that is, true Christianity, which should be practiced in the closet as Jesus commanded. Just as Jesus drove the crooks from the Temple, it’s my desire to abolish Organized Christianity.

    Like

  36. SR-“You twisted God’s Word in a pathetic attempt to link The Old and New Testaments”

    You know, I really didn’t. None of those examples I listed are mine, unfortunately. It was the devout and pious communities of the south that used the Bible to justify slavery. It was(is) faithful and righteous that used (uses) the Bible to justify the brutal beating and killing of homosexuals. It was the divinely inspired that used the Bible to justify a suicide bomb attempt at an Iowa woman’s clinic. Rest assured, it is not ME who is making these connections, but your faithful brethren. I just did that ‘looking at history and current events’ thing I suggested to you earlier.

    SR-“The Old Testament is the Law, which has been rendered moot”

    ‘Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (Matthew 5:17)’
    Jebus says you are wrong.

    SR-“we are to aspire to be like Christ was on Earth, not as Christ the Judge”

    So it is a good and glorious thing when Jebus kills an unbeliever, but its a bad thing when anyone else kills that same unbeliever for the same reason?
    Having different moral classifications for an action depending on who does it is called double-standard, inconsistent, illogical, amoral…among many other undesirable things.

    Simply put, if it is atrocious for a human to kill a heretic, it is also atrocious for jebus to do it. And the Bible is quite clear that he will. So is jebus wrong in the bible, or are christians who kill for christ right?

    SR- “Atheists don’t believe in Absolute Truth, but yet they believe Science is”
    You just directly contradicted yourself in one sentence. Bravo. Science, by the way, is not absolute truth, but rather, the best we have at obtaining truth.

    SR-“The Word of God, It abides forever”

    This seems also to be a direct contradiction of your previous claim of ‘the old testament being moot’. I mean, that was a whole big bunch of god’s word “rendered moot” in just a couple thousand years. Hardly what I’d call eternal.

    SR- “what is evil is defined solely by God’s Word”

    Just wondering, where in the new testament it says you are supposed to call people of a different faith who are merely praying “disgusting”? (remember the post that started all this?)
    I would agree that prayer is a silly exercise, no matter who’s doing it, but I would also say that jumping up and screaming “outrageous” when someone does it, is an asshole move. Getting that upset over it is just as silly.

    Like

  37. Why would God concern Himself (keep in mind that I refer to God as a He, when in actuality He is neither male nor female) with morality? Because, in this World, we have two natures. Good, which is defined God’s Nature. And Evil, which is defined by that which is CONTRARY to the Nature of God. The Arbourist loves to show what he deems to be cruelty and evil works of God. But in truth, God, being without Sin, CAN “throw stones”. He will punish Evil. *cont*

    Like

  38. God is very concerned with the state of the Human Heart. Because God, being Holy, cannot allow Sin in His Presence. And God very much wants a relationship with us. That is why He made us. To have fellowship with. It was because God cannot dwell with Sin that Adam and Eve were banished. And it’s also why He sent His Only Son to pay the price. You see, every religion on Earth is based on Man reaching out to a god. Christianity is the only one where God reaches out to Man. *cont*

    Like

  39. *contd* “Behold, I stand at the Door of your Heart and knock, if any man open up to me, I will come in, and we will share a meal as friends!” -Resurrected Jesus Christ, Rev. 3:20

    Like

  40. Mystro: First of all, His Name is Jesus. You are being very disrespectful to God, and to me. Second, Jesus has every right to Judge the World. And He will. He made you. He will Destroy you, if you do not repent. The New Testament makes it very clear that it is the Christians job only to warn the wicked. If some so called christians take it upon themselves to do Christ’s Job, and destroy the wicked, then may our Righteous Judge deal with them as He will with the rest of the wicked. Believe what you want.

    Like

    • So I see that you are arguing for God in all the comments above, and I was just waiting for the time when you transition yourself from God to Jesus.

      So you are saying that “Jesus created you” and based on the Bible and the facts, this “Jesus God” came out of a woman- Mary peace be upon her!!

      I am sorry man this doesn’t make sense!!! I don’t think Jesus created Prophet Abraham, even Old Testament doesn’t say that!

      Like

  41. Also, I did not call Muslims disgusting. I said that them praying, “ass in the air”, on US soil, was disgusting. You know, you really like to twist things to suit your agenda. And if you get so butthurt and bent out of shape over me disrespecting Muslims and their religion, why do you disrespect me by refering to Almighty God by derogatory name? I will have you know, and this would be a sin, but if you were to call Him that around me, I would smash your fucking face in. Good day.

    Like

    • Hiya SR, it looks like you just boarded the crazy train, compliments of your irrational belief in Jebus and other assorted fiction.

      Your stated beliefs about your particular delusion:

      SR:Forgiveness is the name of the game, now.

      SR:If some so called christians take it upon themselves to do Christ’s Job, and destroy the wicked, then may our Righteous Judge deal with them as He will with the rest of the wicked.

      I am sure the 9/11 hijackers would be perfectly comfortable with the above little gem, just need a little switch-a-roo with the sky daddy in question and its Allah-Ackbar! all the way into the building of your choice.

      SR:I will have you know, and this would be a sin, but if you were to call Him that around me, I would smash your fucking face in.

      Let me juxtapose for you, just in case you are not seeing the irony.

      SR: The Golden Rule, “Do unto others…”, is in The New Testament. The Koran, on the other hand, teaches murder and hatred.

      Hmmm. I guess smashing peoples’ faces in is what jesus would do. Although I thought violence was exclusively in the realm of that other bad religion you harp on.

      Going over the top and threating another person because he made fun of your imaginary friend? Not only are you delusional in your beliefs, but hypocritical in following even the most basic tenets of them.

      I hope Moe moderates your personal information out or the thread, but I have screen caps of exactly how far and fast your religion of “peace” turned you into a violent and irrational zealot willing to commit violence in the name of your religion ,once exposed to rational criticism.

      So you want to know why I don’t let religious bullshite slide. Read this thread again for your answer.

      Like

    • @ Samuel:
      This comment of yours seems to reflect that same thought!!!

      Like

  42. Moe, pay no mind to my previous comment. I may be a typical texan, but I am NOT a typical Christian. I don’t play doormat. Even though I know God wants me to. 🙂

    Like

  43. Oh, and Mystro, I would hate to come off as an Internet Blow-hard. So, I tell you what. You go do an Internet Texas background check using my name. And then, come visit me at samrose@dcemail.com. I will be MORE than happy to give you my address (actually, I think I am listed, but just in case!). And then, you can come over and try calling my Lord that in my face!

    Like

  44. Forgive me, Moe, I know that was immature. I shouldn’t let people get under my skin so easily. I am actually embarassed.

    Like

  45. I stand by my comment, Mystro. Email me, and I will reply with my ACTUAL address. I bet you wouldn’t have the guts to say that to my face. Punk.

    Like

  46. Arbourist: You are wrong. Again. I am not a practicing Christian. I am a backslider. So even though I know I should not do and say those things, I do anyway. When I was a practicing Christian, I would NEVER do or say anything like that. And it’s not because of religion that I would like to harm him, him saying that was merely the trigger. You have said worse, and I have nothing against you. I do him, though. Because he, unlike you or Moe, is a punk. And, religion aside, I hate punks.

    Like

    • Sam – I think it’s time you backed off the preaching and scolding in this thread. I know you’re interested in good conversation and by all means go ahead and talk ABOUT religion, but don’t berate your fellows here because they don’t share YOUR religion.

      Like

  47. You’re right, Moe. I’m embarassed that it happened on my favorite WP blog. I do stand by what I said, though. I was just trying to make a point, that’s all. You see, he’ll say I am wrong to offend Muslims, but then he calls Jesus jebus, offending me. I figured since he’s convinced that Christians are violent, I would humor him. If I’m gonna get accused for something, I might as well do it. Moe, don’t you think the fact that so many people CAN berate Christians in this Nation, proves that we aren’t violent?

    Like

  48. [don’t you think the fact that so many people CAN berate Christians in this Nation, proves that we aren’t violent]

    I don’t hear many people ‘berating’ Christians in this country. We’re the most Christian nation in the world.

    But that you don’t hit back when you feel berated only means that we – Christians and everyone else – have learned that’s not the way to address our differences.

    I’m not a Chrsitain and I wouldn’t dream of striking someone for holding extreme opposite views.

    Like

  49. Funny TV cartoons mock Jesus all the time. South Park mocks Muhammed once and BAM! Death threat. Denmark cartoonist killed for much less. Christians, on the other hand, are made fun of ALOT. Just turn on the TV. That would NEVER happen in Iran. But, let them run THEIR land that way. But the West? Too much Western blood has been shed for freedom of speech. So, I’ll be damned if I’m going to stand by while a bunch of Muslims come over and tell Western people what we can and cannot say. That bothers me. Alot.

    Like

    • For your kind information, if someone does the same thing about Jesus, Moses, Abraham or any other Prophet in Pakistan, Iran or any other Muslim country, that person will be hanged by the government!!!

      Da Vinci Code was banned in most of the Muslim Countries! Sometimes what you say seems contradictory.

      Like

    • And of course, this so called “Freedom of Speech” only applies when one is criticizing Religions, but no worries if Israel has a complete immunity from any criticism lest you are bold enough to be labelled by other either “anti-semite” or “self-hating Jew” !!!

      Freedom of Speech is not the issue! Has never been regarding Muslims. Its hypocrisy to have “Freedom of Speech” to make a mockery of Islam but its Anti-Semitism and Racism and Fascism to Deny Holocaust or criticize Israel!!

      Like

  50. And little punks like Mystro bother me, too. Arbourist holds extreme opposite views. But I respect a worthy opponent. I would never dream of striking someone for holding opposite views, either. But there are instances where I get violent. Men who disrespect life-givers (women). And punks. Remember at the end of his one comment? “Didn’t think that would come back and bite you, did you?”, he said. What a presumptious little bastard! I’ve been on the WWW a long time. Never have I hated someone so much.

    Like

    • Cool the ‘hate’ Sam. It distresses me to hear you talk like that.

      Arb is an active atheist who likes a good argument. Don’t we all like a good argument? That’s probably why we’re here and on other blogs.

      When I post about babies or puppies, there are rarely comments. Only when it’s political or religious.

      Like

  51. Umer Sultan. I have just gained a whole lot of respect for you, sir. You are so right. And while the things the Koran and Muslims (like that New York based extremist group) says scares me, I want nothing more than for Muslims and Christians to work it out. Isaac and Ishmael were brothers, you know. Christians and Muslims should be, too. I am not against Muslims. I am against Muslim immigration in high numbers for this very reason: I believe Muslims would set up Sharia Law. *cont*

    Like

  52. *contd* But if we could get past that, we could thrive together. No two Demographics on Earth have advanced mankind like Christians and Muslims. You can merely read past comments that I made to Moe to get the full story of how I feel about Muslims. I sympathize with Muslims. I firmly believe “that land” to be Palestine by all rights, and Christians to be Jewish Puppets. The war on terror? Genocide at the hands of Zionists. The TRUE Semites are Arabs. *cont*

    Like

  53. *contd* It is my own personal belief that, these so called “sons of shem” wage war against Arabs and call themselves the chosen race, because they are trying to take back what their ancestor sold to the Arab’s ancestor so long ago for a bowl of meat. I also recognize that some of the “acts of terror” that is reported by the American Media and the BBC is actually Muslims defending themselves or retaliating. I have always said these things. I just have a problem with the violence, that’s all. End.

    Like

  54. Oh, and let me also add that my view of God is not 3 seperate Gods. I believe in 1 God, who manifested 3 different ways. Like H2O-Water Ice Steam. The fact that Man is made in His Image, is reflective of this. Body Soul Spirit. 3. However, I am one person. I am merely represented differently by each facet.

    Like

  55. I don’t understand this fear of Sharia! In detail I responded to this at my blog to your comments @ Few Reads About Racism in Hollywood

    In addition to that, why fear Muslims now? Why fear Sharia now? Why the British Colonialists and American Supremacist never feared Sharia when they were kidnapping Africans from their kingdoms and selling them in slavery in the North American Continent. Among the slaves were Muslim prince of various kingdoms, Islamic scholars, students of Islamic knowledge among others.

    Thats why its called Islamophobia, the irrational fear of Islam.

    Regarding the concept of God manifesting Himself in 3 different ways! It still doesn’t make sense that God needs to manifest Himself through Mary, peace be upon her, giving birth to a child, and then the child growing up as a human being.

    Like

  56. Pingback: About that mosque « Whatever Works

  57. RS-“Jesus has every right to Judge the World. And He will. He made you. He will Destroy you”

    So, because parents create their children, they are within their rights to judge and destroy them? Didn’t think so.
    There’s that double standard of morality again. And if your morals have double standards, they are not good morals at all.

    As to your bashing in my face, my point all along has been that christianity is just as liable to fuel violence as islam. Thanks for proving my point.
    I mean, all I did was substitute an ‘s’ for a ‘b’ and you’re ready to throw down. It is no surprise to me that “enemies of the church” are tortured, burned, stoned, hanged, etc. even today. Religiosity has a history of causing such despicable acts.

    SR-“No two Demographics on Earth have advanced mankind like Christians and Muslims.”

    Not sure where you’re getting this, but when christianity ran things, it was called the dark ages, and where islam runs thing currently in the world, there seems to be a distinct lack of advancement. Again, I highly encourage you to actually look at history and current events. You know, that ‘reality’ thing that gets so very little air time during religious gatherings.

    SR-‘my view of God is not 3 seperate Gods’

    Then you agree that God==Jesus. So it was, in fact, Jebus who commanded the murder, genocide, rape, incest, etc in the old testament, he just happened to be…frozen into God form instead of melted into man form at the time?

    And finally, to your ‘hating mystro because he’s presumptious little bastard punk’ remarks, I will only say that I don’t hate you, nor do I have any desire for violence or physical harm to come your way. 🙂 I think that means, according to moderate christian values anyway, even though I’m an unbeliever that calls your god ‘jebus’, I’m a better christian than you. How’s that for irony?

    Like

    • Mystro, Sam – or Tex as we sometimes call him – knows I try to keep a civil tone around here. I try.

      Yours is a welcome voice.

      Hear that Sam?

      Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s