Glad to see Chris Matthews has famous American racist Pat Buchanan on to discuss Sen. Jim Webb’s proposal to end affirmative action. Englightening.
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Whatever Works 
Vey
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Oh good, your post came early enough for me to catch the rerun. Wouldn’t want to miss PB expound on his narrow view of modern culture and would hate to miss his giggle.
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He was just tickled right down to his Irish Catholic toes.
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There is a legitimate point here, should affirmative action be scrapped? No, maybe the criteria needs to change, the bottom line there are just not a low of income people of any race getting into our better schools.
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I agree that it is a legitimate point. We have poor people of all races to whom we should be giving a boost.
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We have poor people of all races to whom we should be giving a boost.
Do you think that “poor people of all races” need help getting into a University they don’t deserve to get into or do you think that they need to begin to learn how to work for a living at an earlier age?
For example, I began pullin’ a “paycheck” in the 4th grade. My dad got me a paper route for my 10th birthday. I mowed lawns and shoveled sidewalks [at the insistence of my father, this was often done pro-bono for the aged on our street] when I was a titch older. I began sweeping floors at the pizzeria and eventually was promoted to delivery boy, cook and then cashier.
Perhaps if these kids experienced intervention when they were 10 we wouldn’t be faced with admitting unqualified applicants to law school, med school and engineering school.
Naw, let’s continue letting in those who fail to qualify otherwise. ’cause nothin smacks of self respect and self reliance than patronization.
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Were you raised in Bleak House? Frankly I don’t know what point you are trying to make. Children from economically depressed homes often don’t have the advantages kids from higher economic levels have. Kids from more secure economic backgrounds do better because their parents can afford to provide the resources required to make it happen. Also I find it abusive that you were forced to deliver work at 10 y/o. I don’t know how old you were when you were sweeping floors in a pizzeria, but there is a reason we have child labor laws.
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pino, that’s just too too tired – “I worked hard, I learned the hard way and if everyone did it like I did it . . . .”
Kiddo, the poor will always be with us. Their children however are not poor or hungry or abused because they lack character. They are poor and hungry becuase htey are poor and hungry.
Moralizing gets us nowhere. The better housed, fed and educated a generation is, the better job they’ll do for the following generations and the better job they’ll do running the damn country. And the world for that matter.
Nothing patronizing about wanting to see a six year old get enough food and a hug.l
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Frankly I don’t know what point you are trying to make.
My point is that someone doesn’t “gain experience” by not experiencing. The sooner we can get kids [yes kids you bed wetting liberal] experiencing what it means to meet a deadline, act responsibly, treat customers and bosses with respect, comprehend the meaning of labor and understand what true and meaningful charity is, the better off that child-soon-to-be-adult will be.
Racism has an ugly UGLY legacy. Namely that no matter your merits, you can’t get ahead. Well, the end of racism, the who GOAL of abolishing that horrible legacy is to ENSURE that you are rewarded by your merit. Advancing people who aren’t qualified simply because of their skin color is a racist as denying them that chance when merited.
I don’t know how old you were when you were sweeping floors in a pizzeria
I was 16.
By the time I was 17 I was an avid runner for our school. I was on the track at 6:30. Following track I was in choir at 7:30; school started at 8:30. After school was more track practice after which I delivered pizza. When I got home, I ran again, finishing my workout. Homework followed, often ’till midnight or later.
I was in church at 8:30 on Sunday morning for choir and Sunday school following.
My parents made me do this not because they were abusive, but because they insisted that I grow up understanding merit.
“I worked hard, I learned the hard way and if everyone did it like I did it . . . .”
Moe. I grew up poor. My dad was a teacher and my mom stayed home with us. We took free and reduced lunches at school.
The reason I am where I am today is NOT because I was poor, it’s because I had strong support growing up.
Nothing patronizing about wanting to see a six year old get enough food and a hug.
Hug and feed away. I suggest we do more of that. The earlier we intervene the better. My point is that by the time a kid is college bound, allowing him into med school instead of someone more qualified, results in shittier doctors.
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If your dad was a teacher you were middle class, not poor, obviously based on that statement of yours you have no idea what it means to be raised in poverty. And quite frankly you sound like someone from Stockholm Syndrome regarding what sound like to me were the excessive burdens placed on you in childhood, perhaps you should deal with the rage you feel over that instead of resorting to name calling with those who disagree with you.
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If your dad was a teacher you were middle class, not poor,
I see. How lovely for you to be able to define a class of people as middle when it suites you and then poor as the winds change.
resorting to name calling with those who disagree with you.
Bed wetting liberal? For that to be construed as name calling you would have to be able to demonstrate that it’s not true.
I’m guessing you blame someone else for that cigarette in your mouth too, don’tcha?
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By any reasonable standard teaching is a middle class profession but hey if it suits your narrative to paint yourself as having been raised in poverty, knock yourself out, no skin off my nose. However I would suggest you consider for moment that the contempt you display for those who are truly trapped in poverty makes for a pretty compelling argument as to why programs like affirmative action are in fact needed.
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BTW if you prefer i can change my avitar to one sans cigarette and replace it with something shall we say “more entertaining”.
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However I would suggest you consider for moment that the contempt you display for those who are truly trapped in poverty makes for a pretty compelling argument as to why programs like affirmative action are in fact needed.
As in “I don’t need to earn my way in base don merit I can do it based on the color of my skin?”
Like that?
the contempt you display for those who are truly trapped in poverty
My contempt is not for those trapped in poverty, rather, it’s reserved for people like you who think you know how to help ’em get out.
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I welcome your contempt and scorn and thank you for it. Again I am sorry that things were so bleak for you growing up, despite your middle class background. It’s a shame you didn’t learn to reject such behavior and replace it with kindness and empathy. I’m going to bed, night.
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I welcome your contempt and scorn and thank you for it.
The tragedy? I believe you.
You feel more comfortable as a victim crying the victim’s song. As a result, you see the world through the eyes of a victim.
Sleep well Brian in NYC, sleep well…..
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Affirmitive Action is a mockery of justice and a living testament to the impending doom of Capitalism. Now, while I think that Reverse-Racism and AA is in itself not a bad idea (it opens doors for minorities), I believe the application of the above is unfair because it merely replaces one victim demographic with another. The real enemy, rich white males, go untouched, white poor working class white trash are left to pay for their crimes. No, AA should be based on one’s economic status, not the race.
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True, but the sad fact is that due to historical events, a person’s so-called “race” is often indicative of economic status. Some demographic groups just have been treated poorer than others throughout history.
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haha, but PB is an MSNBC expert on race relations
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also an expert on Catholic-Jewish relations. Really, he’s everyone’s crazy uncle in the attic.
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My God, this really stirs me up. Multiculturalism under Capitalism is doomed for failure. Capitalism is essentially dog eat dog in concept. And that, coupled with a person’s natural affinity for their own, leads to oppression and racial discrimination any way you slice it. In every instance, when I think of how to improve our current system, it is no coincidence that the answer is a socialist concept. Capitalism is the overall problem, wake up people. Death to the political pig.
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When I think of all the money the rich SIT on, money that they will never get around to spending, I get sick. I get sick, because while that money goes untouched, children starve. YOU PEOPLE who call yourselves liberals are centrists, no more. Make. your. choice. Either we take their money from them, or children continue to DIE. Choose. You can straddle the fence no more. They “sit” on money that can feed the hungry. TAKE their money, which they got dishonestly, or let children die. CHOOSE!
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Tex my friend, are you saying we don’t care or htat we are the rich or that we are letting children die? Maybe you want to rephrase some of this?
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lovely news!
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I am saying that the rich, the Trumps and Rockafellers and such, the FILTHY rich, are sitting on and hording money that will never be touched. That money could be used. Every “liberal” that is not on board with TAKING the money from them, on an international level, and feeding hungry children with it is no liberal. For they have made their choice. Let the children die. Choose. Are you on board with taking their money? Or letting children die? There is no middle ground. You can’t have it both ways. Choose.
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I remember my first beer.
However, I have the distinct impression that this isn’t your first beer, or even close to it.
Of the night.
But consider this.
Why do you think the children “of the world” are hungry and not the children “Of the United States of America?”
Don’t blame people who have gone out and earned a living for your sad assed excuse for sittin’ around smokin’ grass.
If YOU wanna do something for the poor, get up and go do it.
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There are hungry children in America, just like in every other country on the planet.
The rest of the world isn’t simply lazy; the reasons for poverty are numerous and many can be traced to complex political and historical roots. Did you know that Africa is still reeling demographically from the Transatlantic slave trade? I bet you didn’t.
This isn’t like the olden days when life and society were simple enough to enable upward social movement for those born at the bottom rung of the socioeconomic pyramid. Today, in the Information Age, the only careers where a comfortable living wage can be had are those that can only be entered through higher education. This is something people at the bottom cannot afford, and their tight economic lot ensures that they will be unable to provide their children with the coveted better education either. Poverty leads to more poverty and depression, which can easily lead to substance abuse that will only serve to make a person’s lot tougher and the prospects of their children equally grim.
I offer myself as proof; I work every damn day I can, eight-to-ten hour days, seven days a week, and yet when I go back to university, I still do not have enough to cover my own expenses fully. Taking a full-time job while I’m in school would be impossible because my schedule is already full with my studies. Given this, I need the support of my folks and whatever scholarship I can gain. The scholarship stuff isn’t money for people who don’t deserve to be at university; it is for capable people who have proven themselves deserving of university but cannot afford the costs.
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There are hungry children in America, just like in every other country on the planet.
No. There’s not. Not even close. In fact, are kids are more in danger of OVER eating than UNDER eating.
Did you know that Africa is still reeling demographically from the Transatlantic slave trade?
I did, as a matter of fact. Did YOU know that before there was a Transatlantic slave trade there was a European slave trade? Further, while America and virtually all of the “west” has abolished slavery, Africa STILL trades in slavery. This is not an indictment on the west with more Liberty loving polices, this is an indictment on the African nations that continue to deal in terror.
a comfortable living wage can be had are those that can only be entered through higher education.
This is simply not true.
I work every damn day I can, eight-to-ten hour days, seven days a week
I offer you this. I am one of those “higher educated” guys. I’ve been in the work force in corporate America for years. I still work 7 days a week; often 12 or more hours a day. Further, I am on call; it’s not rare for me to be working on an issue in India at 3:00 AM my time.
Taking a full-time job while I’m in school would be impossible because my schedule is already full with my studies. Given this, I need the support of my folks and whatever scholarship I can gain. The scholarship stuff isn’t money for people who don’t deserve to be at university; it is for capable people who have proven themselves deserving of university but cannot afford the costs.
Do NOT cry to me.
Suck it up. If you think it gets easier, you’re fooling yourself.
This is advice I gave to a friend of 30 years as she was suggesting she was frustrated with school:
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[There are hungry children in America, just like in every other country on the planet.
No. There’s not. Not even close. In fact, are kids are more in danger of OVER eating than UNDER eating.]
Ahem. http://feedingamerica.org/faces-of-hunger/hunger-101/hunger-and-poverty-statistics.aspx
Allowing for the latest PC language of ‘food insecurity’:
“In 2008, 49.1 million Americans lived in food insecure households, 32.4 million adults and 16.7 million children. ”
The cheapest food is the most fattening. Good, healthy, nutritious food is more expensive. The homeless lack refrigeration or stoves. Inner cities lack supermarkets.
All part of the picture. Unless you don’t care. So carry on, blame the kids.
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Affirmative Action is great until someone you know loses out to a less qualified person. Spin it anyway you want, someone who wasn’t even born when discrimination was common, pays for that discrimination. Someone who was not even born when discrimination was common, gets to benefit from reverse discrimination.
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Except the effects of discrimination are often generational. If you are the child of someone who denied opportunity and was raised in poverty because your parents were shut out aren’t you in fact a victim of the discrimination your parents endured.
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it’s a very delicate moral argument to make, but we do pay for the sins of our fathers. It’s the way of the world . . . .
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it’s a very delicate moral argument to make, but we do pay for the sins of our fathers. It’s the way of the world . . . .
My “fathers” didn’t come to America until long after slavery was abolished here. However, they WERE in Europe suffering from the European slave trade in northern Africa.
Tell me Moe. When do I get my father’s due?
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pino – when I say ‘we’ I always mean me and my countrymen or me and the rest of the humans and not just the living.
You, on the other hand, seem to think you live in an isolated world of only your own experiences and can judge the rest of the world based on that. I guess you don’t see yourself as one of the ‘we’.
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You gain job opportunities by who you know regardless of race or economic status. If you don’t have many rich friends your opportunities are greatly decreased. The equalizer of this equation is higher education. So I am definitely for low income people of any race to gain a free education. I say bring on some mathematicians, scientist, inventors, and let them achieve greatness regardless of there acquaintences. The main focus should be getting them to want to learn to the master’s degree level. You can put it to a test cause I have seen first hand people that are truly the smartest pretend to be the dumbest. Reason being if the employer knows you can do something they are gonna use your brain for free.
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This is a hoot. AA will never be scrapped. Why? Here is the ugly truth… Because the African will never be able to compete on a level playing field with the European genotype. Capitalism is uniquely geared towards the unique strength of white males. Minorities are disadvantaged in terms of culture, genetics, and evolution. AA itself represents this ugly, unfair, nasty, crime of nature. That is why so many minorities hate AA. They know full well what it represents. Just like you know in your heart what would happen if it was scrapped without replacement. Let’s just say that it would not be East Asians that would suffer. Whether you want to admit it or not, Natural Selection, much like “White Man’s Burden”, is no myth. It is the ugly reality that we face. And that is why Capitalism, and not AA, should be the one to go.
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Where do you come up with this crap?
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Tex could you explain to me why China is doing so well playing in the capitalistic arena despite the fact that they are not white Europeans? You have repeatedly cried foul when I have called you a racist, however the sentiments expressed in this post are what’s at the very heart of racism.
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I am no racist, Brian. I believe in Evolution. Although Science indirectly teaches that Europeans are the pinnacle of Evolution (Blonde hair and blue eyes are reccessive genes because they’re newer), it is my own personal belief that East Asians are. Now the politically correct belief is that race is obsolete, of no consequence, and that success in any given arena is merely random, with racial reoccurences being entirely incidental. This is not correct. Scientifically, or otherwise. Take a look at every species of animal on the planet. Take dogs, for example. Just because the various breeds can reproduce with each other, doesn’t make them all the same. Some “breeds” are faster, some “breeds” are stronger, some are smarter, and so on. This is one constant apparent with every species of animal on the planet. To suggest that Homosapiens are the only exception, when every thing that we see speaks to the contrary, is madness. Can you imagine benching black basketball players in the name of diversity? AA is wrong.
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Believing people can’t succeed based on race is the very essence of racism.
That statement of YOURS is the very extremely racist. I’m not going to debate this with you. Your posts are peppered with racism and homophobia. Frankly it’s beyond sickening.
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Although Science indirectly teaches that Europeans are the pinnacle of Evolution
[citation needed]
Now the politically correct belief is that race is obsolete, of no consequence, and that success in any given arena is merely random, with racial reoccurences being entirely incidental.
Beating a flawed strawman argument to death must certainly be tiring.
A more level playing field is what affirmative action is attempting to address. The systematic biases against certain genders and races are what AA intends to address.
This is not correct. Scientifically, or otherwise.
[Citation needed]
Take dogs, for example. Just because the various breeds can reproduce with each other, doesn’t make them all the same. Some “breeds” are faster, some “breeds” are stronger, some are smarter, and so on.
Did you notice that dogs do not have a particularly complex society? Or did I miss the last Mozart Opera with all canine cast? Comparing human society to dog society and making erroneous assumptions about human society based on what dogs do is just plain silly. I may as well compare the progress of the kangaroo in their space race and come to the conclusion that those damn marsupials are just lazy.
To suggest that Homosapiens are the only exception, when every thing that we see speaks to the contrary, is madness.
Madness? *dramatic pause….* NO THIS IS SPARTA!!!! *boots someone down the hole*.
On a less spartanic note, comparing human cultural and social tendencies with less complex animals is closer to madness than anything else.
Can you imagine benching black basketball players in the name of diversity?
I can imagine a lot of improbably things, especially about things that I don’t like, but that still does not make it a valid comparison.
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An all dog cast Magic Flute, I like it!
🙂
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Don’t be foolish. The human genotype is far too vast to determine if one gene-pool is inherently superior to another. The traits of so-called “races” are merely external and adaptive, blue-eyes evolved to help Europeans deal with snow-glare so they could hunt easier in the cold winters. African skin is black becasue the higher pigment concentraction prevents UV damage to the skin and thus prevents melanoma. Asians tend to be shorter and stockier because those traits help someone survive in the low-oxygen
plateaus that predominate in central and western Asia.
Furthermore, there is no solid proof that any “race” is more intelligent than any other. Early human societies all used crude tools, all developed primitive languages, and all discovered agriculture independently of each other. Those who didn’t discover agriculture did not need it for their society to survive. Human cultures have evolved on such different lines
that any comparisan between them is virtually impossible.
Also, please define “success”. What is success? Against what universal standard do you weigh it?I bet that your definition of success is different from that of other cultures. Many cultures do not emphasize material or economic gain like the West does, does this make our culture or the others “inferior?” Such notions make me laugh.
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I am successful because I am alive against bad odds.
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Let me clarify that while I believe in Evolution, I also believe in Intelligent Design. I believe that Evolution without Intelligent Design is impossible. That is all. Thank you.
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Let me clarify that while I believe in Evolution, I also believe in Intelligent Design. I believe that Evolution without Intelligent Design is impossible.
Well that is nice. Wrong but nice.
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Homophobia? Where did that come from? Anyway, my posts are not racist. And yes, I do believe that race influences success to some degree. Whites will never be as athletic as blacks. Will never be as smart as asians, and so on. There are genetic differences and unique adaptive traits via micro-evolution that influence the way the various races interact with each other in a multicultural enviroment. Those who can think for themselves with worrying about what is PC can embrace this Scientific truth. Peace.
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You say “scientific truth” without providing scientific evidence.
Just like a true follower of Alex Jones…
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I could say Tex that africans have evolved to become way smarter, than whites ever could imagine in a very short time period in the eon scientificully driven world. Today blacks are no longer slaves please get in this century. Today blacks are the leaders in the funnest coolest jobs imaginable doing and making millions at things most white people do on their off day from work to relax. Play games, sing, dance. Not only are they the leaders in these coolest funnest jobs they have now evolved to work and play at the same time. Blacks can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time, something most whites only dream of. It took me a year of dialysis employment before I could chew bubble gum and do change over without biting my tongue.
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I could say Tex that africans have evolved to become way smarter, than whites ever could imagine in a very short time period in the eon scientificully driven world.
You could say that, but you would also be incorrect. Evolution by definition is change over time, a very long period of time in most cases.
Blacks can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time, something most whites only dream of.
What exact point are you trying to make? More to the point, why are you distinguishing a set of traits by race? Most people, I would hazardously hypothesize , can in fact chew gum and walk at the same time.
Today blacks are the leaders in the funnest coolest jobs imaginable doing and making millions at things most white people do on their off day from work to relax.
Ahhhhh. Because now there are some successful Black people (while the majority still are discriminated against and impoverished) in sports, everything is good?
That seems a little bit of an over-simplification of the situation, no?
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This is my simplistic view aborist because I could write a whole jounal on the subject. And ya to me it is good and getting better; and I think can and will continue to get better. Success is what ever you think it is. My definition of success is, I already said, that I am alive against bad odds. What is yours? To the point of the bubble gum thing I have lots of black friends that I have spent hours upon hours conversing with. I find that they are way smarter and have learned more about strategies, life , the list could go on and on and on.. I grew up in a racist white family badly abused against my will because I was chosen adopted as an infant. I am mixed half mexican and half dutch.
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My parents actually moved us to an all white predious town called Sheridan, Arkansas when I was in elementary to Junior High at a time when school redistricting had already happened this whole town was completely white. Me haveing naturally tanned skin was not a pleasant thing . Statistically the students from that school are smart but it was the highest rated area in the world for teen suicide.
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What good is smart if you are so unhappy you commit suicide? Some of those students, went to the front of the classroom and shot themselves in the head. Several hangings happened of the smartest kids the ones that seemed from the outside had everything anyone could want and ask for.
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Whites will never be as athletic as blacks. Will never be as smart as asians, and so on.
Citation needed.
There are genetic differences and unique adaptive traits via micro-evolution that influence the way the various races interact with each other in a multicultural enviroment.
Citation needed.
Those who can think for themselves with worrying about what is PC can embrace this Scientific truth. Peace.
Funny.
I would guess that people disagreeing with the stuff you have been pulling out of your ass would be summarily written off as PC.
Convenient, but having seen the calibre of your other arguments, unsurprising.
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Brian in NYC,
” Except the effects of discrimination are often generational. If you are the child of someone who denied opportunity and was raised in poverty because your parents were shut out aren’t you in fact a victim of the discrimination your parents endured. ”
So are there unlimited generations of people who get to go to the front of the line based on color? Where does your quota system stop? How do you keep your quota system from being corrupted ? Everytime you have Government imposed preferences you invite corruption.
The people on the wrong end of those preferences and that corruption will harbor resentment, and rightly so.
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Actually more often than not it’s the lack of government that leads to abuse and corruption.
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[ Everytime you have Government imposed preferences you invite corruption.]
Like civil right? Allowing women to vote? Allowing blacks/whites to marry? Like preferences for an educated populace? EPA rules? ADA rules?
Also I’ve never heard of corruption as being one of the reasons people don’t want htings like AA.
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AA is ridiculus. Can you imagine benching black players in favor of white players in the NBA? It would create diversity, but it would lower quality. That is what you do when you “bench” white doctors in favor of less qualified black ones. Each race has specific strengths. AA hampers this fundemental truth and in doing so keeps us from putting our best minds forward out of the fear that they would mostly be asian and white. Tough. That’s how it is. Life is not fair. Let the best run the show.
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My GI happens to be a black man, my former GI is a white man, frankly the black guy is a better doc than the white was one.
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Great. There are exceptions to every rule. But if you think that you can twist the cruel facts of this world to correlate with your bleeding heart worldview, then you are badly mistaken. A transmission cannot be an engine, and a drive shaft cannot be a chassis. Until we all unite under Communism, with each demographic fulfilling their respected functions, true progression will be obscured by a myriad of racial problems. I couldn’t care less that my view is unpopular. It is the truth. Open your eyes.
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If there are too many exceptions to a rule, than that rule doesn’t exist.
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Sam (TT) – no kind of unification (under communism or any other system) will end racism. Both Mao and Stalin slaughtered ethnic minorities.
Racism is, sadly, deeply human. The only way past it is to grow and learn our way out. That is the journey we’re on. So good for us on that front – but the journey will contninue probably for hundreds of years. (Unless we go backward, which is of course a real possiblity)
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You know, I have tried to have intelligent and civil conversations with you Brian. I have been fair with you, answered your posts, and tried to make peace. Yet, all you ever have is something derogatory to say to me. Your arguments are ad-hominem, and your retorts childish. If you cannot bring yourself to make intelligent, civil, and respectful debate with me, then I politely ask that you refrain from answering or commenting on my posts in the future. I’m sick of your hostility. Thank you.
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Ms. Holland,
I said, ” Everytime you have Government imposed preferences you invite corruption. ”
” Like civil right? Allowing women to vote? Allowing blacks/whites to marry? Like preferences for an educated populace? EPA rules? ADA rules? ”
You have changed the meaning of what I said. Interracial marriage, Womens’ voting rights, were not the topic. The topic, I remind you is Affirmative Action. What preferences for an educated populace, EPA, and ADA have to do with my criticism of Affirmative Action,, well you’ll have to tell me .
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She didn’t change anything she was making a point in response to your over broad anti-govt. statement.
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Okay Alan, I’ll take your point and narrow my focus to AA. And remind you that government – both Federal and State – had policies of preference in place prior to AA tht favored the then-majority.
As you know, AA is not just about black Americans, it has had a huge impact on women as well. After the law ivy colleges went co-ed and women were allowed entrance into so many areas previously denied them.
Women’s rights were certainly a civil rights issue, but only pressure from the Federal govt made it a reality.
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And instead of everyone bitching about what is wrong with AA it would be nice to hear someone from the right actually admit it worked.
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Brian In NYC ,
” She didn’t change anything she was making a point in response to your over broad anti-govt. statement. ”
My perception of what I said bears no resemblance to your comment.
Ms. Holland,
” After the law ivy colleges went co-ed and women were allowed entrance into so many areas previously denied them. ”
To paraphrase Spencer Tracy in one of my favorite movies ‘ Inherit the Wind ‘ . Ok Maam, we’ll play in your ball park.
Allowing entrance into an institution by a group previously denied entrance, is not the same as putting a quota system for how many must be allowed in and denying other groups entrance just to make that quota .
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Alan, quotas were indeed put in place. They were put there to jump start the process. Which was only proper when things happen a few hundred years later than they should have.
But the ‘quotas’ have been melting away ever since. AA still requires certain levels, but they are less mandated than they were.
It took centuries to get it wrong – we may reasonably expect it takes some decades to fix the wrong. Nothing really ‘rights the wrong’; all we can do is fix it. We are obliged to do that.
(Speaking as a woman of course.)
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Ms. Holland,
You advocate healing an ancient evil by a modern one. Quotas ‘are’ racism. Someone born today is not responsible for the racism of a century ago .
You are actually then causing more racism as majorities build resentment towards minorities getting special treatment. And just where does it end ? Those getting ‘special’ set asides have every incentive to make sure the perceived racism never stops.
There really is no other way to explain the economic black mail that is Rev. Al and Rev. Jesse.
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Alan, I can’t bring myself to assign moral equivalence to both human slavery and a system designed to give a chance for access to schools and jobs.
Rev Al and Rev Jesse are media clowns with very good booking agents. They are increasingly irrelevant to any serious discussion – perhaps we can agree on that.
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Ms. Holland,
Leaving illegal immigration aside, I know legal immigrants who have come here, had to overcome the language barrier, and discrimination with no Affirmative Action. They have prospered using the capitalist system to start and run small businesses.
Now you have native born minorities who speak English, yet can only succeed by having places in the front of the economic line, set aside for them. I reject that.
As far as the Reverends, clowns they may be, but very powerful ones. They still make a very good living in their chosen field.
Oh, here is a fact that you will not believe. I voted for Reverend Jesse in the 1984 Presidential Primaries. I confess that my motives were less than honorable.
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Alan – I dont think the good Revs are very powerful any more. They’re just out there and very visible. I was at a Meet the Candidates event tongiht – there were half a dozen gov candidates for the nominations, people I’ve never heard of, as usual. I talked to this guy, a Dem candidate, a black man about 60. And we actually talked about this – and he said “those two! I wish they’d just go away!.”
By the way, capitalism is not a system; it’s an economic philosophy that we use – in differenet ways.
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Ms. Holland,
Forgive me for changing the subject, but I must take this opportunity to complain to an Obama supporter. Since Obama took over the Student Loan Program, things are screwed up . I’ve had 6 years of dealing with the old system between having 2 kids in College.
My wife,, and I just spent the whole morning trying to fix the screw ups in the paper work so that our money actually gets to the college.
I would not have minded if only your hero had waited another 2 years until I’m done with this before he messed with it.
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No kids in college so this is not something I’m familiar with Alan.
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